Barbeau Qued in Seattle
The Arrest of Schuyler Barbeau

Gary Hunt
Outpost of Freedom
December 8, 2015

In the late morning of December 6, 2015, Schuyler Barbeau had been helping Allen Aenk by rescuing service dogs as a business service run from the Aenk family Ranch, in Stevens County, Washington some 280 miles away from where the following events begin to unfold.

At the Weigh Station

After dealing with the dogs, Schuyler wanted stop to collect some money owed him by Oliver Murphy. Murphy texted to Schuyler to meet him at a weigh station at Interstate 90 and Washington Highway 18 (between Preston and Snoqualmie). When they arrived at the weigh station, Oliver’s car was there, but Oliver was nowhere to be seen. So, they parked next to Oliver’s car and Allen got out of the car, cell phone in hand to call his wife and to take the dog to the Dog Walk.

Before he could complete his intended tasks, he saw between 10 and 12 battle dressed people encircle the him and the car. He was told to lie down on the ground. He complied, though he questioned why they were being treated this way. They then handcuffed Allen, and since Schuyler was on the other side of the car, he didn’t really see what happened to him. Allen did note that he saw FBI, US Marshalls, and Coast Guard, though there were no apparent BATF agents on the scene. But, we’ll get to the charges shortly.

The agents were going through his car, but they had no warrant with them, they simply stated that they did have one (There was a warrant to search the car at the premises – ranch, but nothing identifying the car specifically).

They then moved Allen away from the car and began asking questions about Schuyler, but were told to ask Schuyler, not him.

After they had searched the car, one of the agents, acting rather rudely and assertively, asked Allen to sign a “Receipt for Property Seized”, which Allen refused to sign, and Special Agent Kera O’Reilly (did you ever wonder why gimp kids are special, and so are FBI agents?) affirmed that he refused. However, he was provided a copy, and it shows the following items seized from the car:

— Green “Bad Inc” Vest with visible firearms magazine with unknown contents inside pockets, bags, etc

— Grey “Universal” bag with yellow straps, with green sunglasses on strap and unknown contents

— FNH VSA pistol (FNX-45 Tactical Serial # FX3U025994) w/ [intelligible]

Inforce tactical light

1 round loose, 15 in magazine full metal jacket 45 cal

— Cellular telephone, Android platform,

Droid Turbo, w/ other box (grey w/ yellow outline)

Allen was not allowed to verify some of those seized item, in particular, the “Grey Universal bag with yellow straps”, so the feds can do anything they want with the contents. It was Special Agent O’Reilly who, rather rudely, refused Allen’s request to review the contents.

Just so we know who the rather rude agent that dealt with Allen is, she was Kera Wulbert, and may have been Kera Wulbert Wagner, prior to that. Around 2013, she married Brendan Gerard O’Reilly (age 46) and quit-claimed her house at 2914 S Hill Street, Seattle, to herself and her new husband. Enough of that, so, on with the show:

The other Special Agent was Matthew Acker, who acted courteously, as we should be able to expect our public servants to act toward us. These two agents were, apparently, assigned to Allen, while we can suppose that the rest of the jackboots were needed to assure that Schuyler did take over the surrounding forces, though we will have to get that information from him, when he is removed from sequestration and allowed visitors and phone calls.

The Criminal Complaint

Though we have no proof of the existence of an Arrest Warrant being issued prior to the arrest, we do have the Criminal Complaint that resulted in the arrest, as well as the search warrant.

The only Count in the Complaint says that Schuyler “knowingly possessed a firearm which was not registered to him in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record, as required by law, namely, a particular black, semiautomatic AR-15 5.56 mm caliber assault rifle with a 10.5 inch barrel and holographic sight, a rifle having a barrel of less than 16 inches in length”, for which the government wants a $200 tax The refer to Title 26, US Code, §§5861(d) and 5845(a)(3) as the violations. Title 26 is the tax code, so they are assuming that Schuyler owes a tax, and that he failed to pay it. Can you imagine how much it cost the government to persecute Schuyler, as opposed, say, to sending him a bill?

It appears that what he had was a Rainier Arms UltraMatch .223 Wylde Complete Upper – 10.5. This is advertised by Rainier Arms, and the add states that “ALL NFA Rules Apply”.

So, we know and understand that a Class III license holder has, by obtaining the license, agreed to do certain things. Among them would be to verify that if he sold such an item, alleged to be illegal in the Complaint, he would have to run a background check, provide the necessary paperwork to the purchaser, submit the paperwork, and fulfill all of the duties that the regulations require of him. But, that is because he contracted, by obtaining the license, with the government to perform those tasks required by those regulations. This would include 18 USC (criminal) and 26 US Code (tax), and perhaps others. But, it is only the licensee that has agreed to abide by those regulations.

However, the Second Amendment has confirmed our right to bear arms, without infringement. This leaves the government with only limited jurisdiction, via the Commerce Clause (interstate commerce) and the taxing authority, as the means of the government to try to circumvent the limits imposed upon the government by the Constitution. However, if someone hasn’t contracted with the government, they, as well as the government, should be bound only by the Constitution. Schuyler’s right to possess that firearm is sacred; there is no justification for the government to attempt to, by force of arms, pay a tax on that right — regardless of what the government thinks. And, it is his right to do so that we, the People, need to “support and defend”.

Back to the Complaint. Special Agent Michael Baldino executed the Complaint. He is a member of the Seattle Division’s Domestic Terrorism Squad of the Joint Terrorism Task Force (JTTF). Those are the guys that let Muslims kill people in California, while they mess with Americans that are intent on defending America against those Muslim terrorists, and BLM wannabes.

In paragraph 5 (page 3/6) we see that a Confidential Human Source (CHS) provided information (snitched) to the FBI about Schuyler. The Complaint is a substitute for the constitutionally required affidavit, and a poor substitute, at that. An affidavit is sworn as to personal knowledge, and is not supposed to give any validity to hearsay. However, since Baldino didn’t “swear” to the document, well, he can say anything that he wants.

Back to the CHS. It has been confirmed that the CHS in the Complaint is none other than Oliver Murphy. Yes, that is the one that baited Schuyler and Allen to the Weigh Station, but it doesn’t end here. Before we proceed, perhaps we ought to look at Mr. Murphy. His father, Patrick Murphy, was Snohomish County Sheriff. He was appointed to that position in 1995, when then Sheriff Jim Scharf stepped down to become the Everett Police Chief. Murphy, however, didn’t stay long. He was charged with four counts of felony possession of prescription medication. Patrick died in 2006, so maybe Oliver wanted to follow in his father’s footsteps and become recognized in “law enforcement”. At any rate, Oliver was in from the beginning to the end of Schuyler’s ordeal.

Paragraph 7 (Complaint) tells us that CHS was invited to the trailer that Schuyler was staying in at the Aenk’s ranch, on October 19, 2015. The Aenk’s have confirmed that it was Murphy that stayed with Schuyler, on that date. There is only one CHS (if there are more than one, they are numbered), so it is Murphy in every instance in the Complaint.

Next, we have Baldino going to Facebook to see what “dirt” he could get on Schuyler. He found photographs where Schuyler acknowledged that he owned a “short-barreled rifle” (SBR), which would be the Rainier Arms UltraMatch. So, when Schuyler suggested that he wanted to sell it. Murphy, being such a nice guy, let Schuyler know that he had found a buyer for the SBR.

On November 22, Schuyler dropped the SBR off at Murphy’s “residence”. So now, Murphy possess the SBR, but he has not been charged, and, according to the available information, he is not law enforcement, nor is he exempt from any regulation that might be imposed, legally, or not, on Schuyler. But, Murphy was never charged with a crime, but, then, that is the nature of a police state, isn’t it?

Schuyler has given up the SBR, Murphy gives it to the FBI, but nobody has paid Schuyler for the purchase the SBR. That sounds awfully like what is commonly referred to as theft, fraud, swindle, or some other real crime that has an injured party, namely Schuyler. But, in this modern world where it is always somebody else’s fault, the only one that didn’t hurt anybody by stealing property was Schuyler.

It was probably to collect the money that Murphy was supposed to have sold the SBR for that was the enticement for Schuyler and Allen to go to the Weigh Station.

Meanwhile, Back at the Ranch

About the same time that those events were occurring at the Weigh Station across the state in Springdale, Carrie Aenk was facing her own ordeal. The following is based upon an interview and documents that have been provided.

Thirty to 35 people showed up in 7 or 8 vehicles. Carrie, when she saw them driving in, tried to call Allen. There was no answer. however, the used a battering ram on the back door of the house. They also released some of the dogs from their kennel.

The search warrant is marked “X in the daytime 6:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m.” (Page 1 of pdf). It says nothing about “no knock”, so it must be served in a civil manner. A battering ram at the back door of the house hardly satisfies that expectation, but, then, we you give thugs a license, they can do as they please — the Constitution notwithstanding.

I think we need to note here that the search warrant among other things, states that “I find that the affidavit(s), or any recorded testimony, establish probable cause to search and seize the person or property.” However, no affidavit, or recorded testimony, has been provided. And, if we were to assume that the Criminal Complaint somehow satisfies that requirement, then even more curious is the fact that the search warrant brings in charges that were not included in the Complaint, or anywhere else in any of the currently existing court documents.

As far as the Warrant, it gives permission to search for the person or property described in “Attachment A”. “Attachment A” says, “This warrant authorizes the search of Schuyler Pyatte Barbeau for any cellular phones. This warrant authorizes the search of any such phones for the items described in “Attachment B”. Then, it remarks that Schuyler resides in a trailer on the property. So, the warrant only allows them to search Schuyler for any phones, and then to search any phones for items in “Attachment B”. So, to make this clear, Schuyler can be searched for phones. Presumably, if phones are found, those phones can be searched for the items identified in “Attachment B”. There doesn’t appear to be any authority to search beyond that limitation. So, let’s look at attachment be to see just what might be found in the phones.

“Attachment B” begins with, “Items to Be Seized from the Phone Described in Attachment A.” Before we continue with Attachment B, let’s reflect on what they just said. The items to be seized are to be seized from the phone. I know that the concept of seizing items from a phone is difficult to digest, unless, of course, you are a government agent. I realize that smart phones are a bit over my head, but I still have a problem understanding how items can be seized from them. But, let’s continue and see just what those federal agents can “seize” from a phone.

Continuing in Attachment B, “All documents and items reflecting evidence and/or fruits of the commission of the crimes of (a) unlawful possession of a firearm, in violation of Title 26, United States Code, Sections 5861(d) and 5845(a)(3); (b) possession of stolen federal property, in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 641; and (c) possession of a machine gun, in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 922(o), including:”, then it goes on to list, not items, rather, telephone serial numbers; sent, received, and missed calls; stored contact information; and, any stored photographs or Facebook posts –that might show something illegal.

This brings to mind an important part of the Constitution, you know, where they itemized some of the inherent rights of the People, not as grants by the government, rather, prohibitions against the government violating them. Specifically, the Fourth Amendment:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

So, if information stored on a cell phone (since it can’t be the items that were to be seized) is simply a modern substitute for “papers and effects”, then it requires that the probable cause must be supported by “Oath or affirmation”. Unfortunately, the government has failed to provide such.

The Complaint was for a tax violation, only, and being singularly concerned with that SBR. If we assume that the “affirmation” (that is really stretching our language to an extreme), then the extent of that affirmation must be limited to the SBR and Title 26 (taxes). So, where the hell does “possession of stolen federal property” and “possession of a machine gun” come into the picture? Do this just make this shit up while sitting around the water cooler? Also, consider the judge, Thomas O. Rice; does he even read what he signs? And, all of these idiots, even the judge, probably make over $100,000 a year — of our money. It seems more like the Mafia than a government.

Just to throw a little confusion into the mix, both of these attachments mentioned above bear the case number directly below the title. There are two more attachment “A”s, but neither of them have a case number, so they are either sloppy, inserted these from some other source, or they could care less about the identification of legal documents. Take your pick, but when you are dealing with incompetence, it can only be a wild guess.

Given the limits of what could be searched for, let’s look at what they found “on the phone”:

1) Plastic bag with .223 ammo

2) Seven (7) 223 magazine

3) Verizon bill, ID cards, record book

4) Motorola mobile phone, model XT 912

5) Nylon bag with camping tool, tape (?)

6) Plastic box with gun parts

7) Large plastic bag with gun parts

It is hard to believe that any of those items, except No. 4, could satisfy the conditions of the warrant

However, the act of the service of this warrant, after the battering ram entry, gets even more interesting. After they entered the house, they flash-banged every room they entered. Carrie counted at least eight of them in the house. That’s right, they threw flash-bang grenades into each room, in order to clear it, perhaps, from evil spirits, since it would be difficult to otherwise understand the necessity of causing intentional damage, including gaping holes in walls, windows blown out, not to mention the back door that was battered open, and one helluva mess to prove that the government has come to “help you”. If there is an assumption being made here that the government will perform restitution for the damage they caused, especially if the charges are dropped against Schuyler, then you are sadly mistaken.

While this “search” (and destroy) was going on, Carrie was held handcuffed for about an hour and a half, and she was not allowed to contact her attorney. They also held a gun on Carrie throughout this entire ordeal. Perhaps there is reason for concern when there is just one pissed off woman, and only 30 to 35 armed men to keep her under control.

While searching the rest of the premises, they used at least ten more flash bangs, some of them apparently only to scare the dogs, which resulted in laughter by some of the agents, who apparently were enjoying themselves immensely while terrorizing Carrie. I will conclude by stating that this is, by far, the most egregious abuse of presumed governmental authority that I have seen since my visit to Waco, back in 1993.

Perhaps it is time to reflect on whether we are truly a self-governed nation, or have become subject to a government far more despotic that that one cast off by the Founders, 239 years ago. And, to reflect upon our obligation, as that “Posterity” identified in the Preamble to the Constitution, to assure that this once great nation returns to its intended object, for our own Posterity.

For the follow up; Schuyler’s description of what happened, see:

Barbeau Qued in Seattle – The Arrest of Schuyler Barbeau – Part II – In Schuyler’s Own Words

Arizona Misfits
A Bad Operation Gone Worse

Gary Hunt
Outpost of Freedom
August 6, 2015

Part 1- The Characters

Three men from Arizona have been charged with “to intentionally combine, conspire, confederate, and agree together, to possess with the intent to distribute five kilograms or more of a mixture or substance containing a detectable amount of cocaine, its salts, optical and geometric isomers, and salts of isomers, a Schedule II controlled substance, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Section 841(a)(1) and (b)(1)(A)(ii)(II).”

One of the three has also been charged with, that he “did knowingly possess a firearm, in furtherance of a drug trafficking crime, that is, Conspiracy with Intent to Distribute Cocaine, as alleged in Count 1 of this Indictment, a felony prosecutable in a Court of the United States.

Parris Frazier is charged with both counts. Robert Deatherage (aka Anthony Winchester) and Erik Foster are charged only on the first, cocaine, count.

We will begin with a look at the character of the main players, in this rather interesting story of the arrest of three men, who are professed patriots.

The ringleader was Parris Frazier, of Arizona. He is well known around some of the border operations, though he has been asked to leave some of the groups because he seems to have ideas, expectations, and methods which are beyond the reasoned thinking of those running full, or nearly full, time operations.

He had visited one group, probably the best continually working operation on the Arizona-border, and was asked to leave after three days. He seemed apprehensive, perhaps even scared that something might happen when on an operation and would frequently take a break in the shade, and wait for the others to return. One of the sources described him as possibly bi-polar. He had been known to change moods, without provocation, described as someone who “would go off” in a minute, and then become calm and sedate, in the next minute. Another source claimed that after a few miles, Frazier asked someone to carry some of his gear. Physically, at about 50 years of age, he was not up to the task.

Frazier had gone to the Bundy Ranch, April 2014. While there, if given an assignment, he would take charge and move the others working with him to completion. However, when left in charge in one situation where there was no oversight, he displayed unnecessary and offensive behavior by assuming that some friends of the Bundys, who were retrieving their cattle with cattle trailers, must be BLM and gave them a hard time, without verifying who they were. This was a rather embarrassing situation for the militia, though those competent people in charge were able to reconcile the situation.

It would appear, then, that though a good worker when in charge, he is not a stable leader, nor is he competent, as it appears that he does not think through the situation, or the consequence of his actions. He often talked of “kills” along the border, though most who know him doubt that he has the fortitude or the ability necessary to accomplish such a task. He has bragged about kills while in the service, though it appears that he was in an artillery unit and his entire service was stateside.

More than likely, when he conducts his own border operations, they are simple larks in the desert, with no useful purpose. He might best be described as a “wanna be”. As a result, many patriots within of the border protection community chose to maintain a distance from him.

His behavior is such that he probably has trouble keeping a group together for very long, which would explain why, after the events that led to his downfall began, he contacted someone he had met on Facebook and made an offer for him to join “something big”. Frazier never used any form of vetting before soliciting participants in any activities.

This irrational approach, bringing someone into some criminal activity, whom he had never met, or had never even tried to vet, demonstrates an irrational behavior that is inconsistent with any aspect of leadership requiring discretion.

Next, we have Robert “Rob” Deatherage (aka Anthony Winchester). It appears that he is an adherent to Frazier, committed to some cause but clearly associate with incompetent leadership. He attended Jon Ritzheimer’s Freedom of Speech Rally (Phoenix Muslim event), in full battle gear.

He has claimed to have been shot while working the border, though he has no wound scars to prove this point. He has also claimed to have made “kills” on the border, though this has not been confirmed by any source.

Deatherage has been close to Frazier for years, though there was a split up during the Bundy Affair that was reconciled a few months later. His military experience was in Navy Search and Rescue, though he has claimed to have made “kills” while in the service.

Erik Foster was from Idaho and he came on the Arizona scene about the time he attended Ritzheimer’s Freedom of Speech Rally. He was looking for a group to join, and by chance crossed paths with Frazier, he always has stories and exploits to impress the unknowing. Apparently, Foster felt that this was the group he should join.

Randon Berg was one of the early participants and participated in the first two Operations, which were cash grabs. He has not been charged federally, since he was not a participant in the third Operation (cocaine), though he may not be in the clear under state law. He had been a friend of Frazier for some time.

Frazier was the ringleader, however, he was not a competent leader, and whether he is a patriot is, at best, questionable, as he appears to be more of a gigolo, and has learned to live off of others, as long as he can, and then moves on to the next one. He simply found easy pickings within the patriot community.

The other two, unfortunately, bought a good line, and never seriously thought of the consequences, nor did they do an honest evaluation of the leader they chose to follow.

* * * * * * * * * * * * *

Part 2 – The Introduction

Frazier, Deatherage, and Foster were arrested on July 22, 2015. However, the story begins back in January. Task Force Officer (TFO) John E. Kelly, Federal Bureau of Investigation filed the Criminal Complaint. He acknowledges working “the Phoenix Division FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force (JTTF), squad NS-3, in Phoenix, Arizona. This squad is responsible for investigating many different types of criminal violations including domestic terrorism, weapons of mass destruction, illegal militia activities, and illegal sovereign citizen activities.” We are going to let TFO Kelly tell us most of the story (italicized).

On January 24, 2015, during a “traffic stop” by Customs and Border Patrol (CBP), Frazier began a conversation with the agents. The agents “mentioned that an informal source had been providing them with information regarding illegal border activities, but they could no longer operate that source. FRAZIER expressed his interest in contacting the source so he could use the source’s information to assist in protecting the border.”

Note that the purpose was to “assist in protecting the border”. Note, also, that this was a “traffic stop”. It does not say “checkpoint”. A traffic stop is when you are pulled over by an officer. I don’t recall that this is a common practice of CBP. Is it possible that they had identified Frazier as someone that they had wanted to set up?

On February 11, Frazier received a phone call from an unnamed individual, though identified later as an “undercover employee” (UCE) of the FBI. He claimed to be the “informal source” that had been mentioned on January 11. The conversation was recorded, though we don’t have the recording. However, what we are told is that the discussion went, immediately, to other than “protecting the border”. Parentheticals are from the Criminal Complaint:

In the conversation, the UCE asked what FRAZIER was looking for so he can start looking for jobs. FRAZIER said that he had a small group of Patriots that he trusted and they were trying to take care of (steal) anything that came up out of Mexico (drugs) or was going back into Mexico (bulk cash), but they preferred the cash loads going south. FRAZIER told the UCE that if he provided decent intel on stuff going south (bulk cash), FRAZIER would give the UCE a percentage of whatever is taken. FRAZIER said that his group is a bunch of professionals and none of them are tied up in law enforcement.

It appears that the purpose was to get rich, quick, rather than to protect the border. By this time, Frazier assumed that he was working with a disgruntled cartel member.

* * * * * * * * * * * * *

Part 3 – The First Operation

On March 4, in an in-person meeting, Frazier said that he wanted “cash loads going south”, and that he would give the “source” (UCE) 25% of the take. Frazier offered, “if we (his group) have to dispatch (kill) some people, we will dispatch some people. FRAZIER said that his guys are mercenaries and they just want to rip cash. However, he also said that he planned on killing all of the individuals guarding the cash to ensure that his guys go home at night. In addition, FRAZIER offered to kill anyone that the UCE wanted taken out.”

On March 11, in a phone conversation, Frazier said that “he would like GPS coordinates for the job location so he and his guys can get there before the package shows up. FRAZIER said that when the job does go down, ‘it will be very violent and very quick.’ He said that they can’t leave any witnesses.”

On March 25, Frazier and the “source”, in a phone call, hatch the following plan:

The UCE said he is going with his cousin to drop off a vehicle with $20,000. He said that if that gets taken off, it will make the UCE’s uncle mad at the cousin. The UCE said that if he can get the cousin out of the picture, then the UCE will be able to provide bigger stuff that his cousin will get blamed for. The UCE said that his uncle is making the cousin personally drop off the vehicle with the money. The UCE said that he and his cousin are going to drop off the vehicle and leave it so the backpackers can load it and take it up to Phoenix. The UCE said that FRAZIER and his group can get in the vehicle and take the cash before the backpackers arrive so that it makes the UCE’s cousin look like an idiot.

Between this and the next event, on March 29, Frazier tried to enlist another patriot, though he had never met him and had only communicated with Facebook and Facebook PM (explained in Part 1). The other patriot, wisely, declined.

Now we move into the action. On April 2, we have the following first attempt at seizing a “cash load”, and, perhaps, a demonstration of incompetence:

FRAZIER and an associate [unidentified] attempted to steal money from a staged “cartel load vehicle” that contained $8,000. The attempted cash rip was observed by FBI surveillance and captured by video surveillance equipment outside the vehicle and audio/video equipment inside the vehicle. During the rip, FRAZIER and his associate were dressed in camouflage clothing and were wearing facemasks. They also had on tactical vests and were carrying AR-15 style assault rifles with optical sights. Both individuals were observed searching the vehicle; however, the $8,000 in cash was not taken.

FRAZIER said he and another guy searched the load vehicle but didn’t find anything. The UCE tells FRAZIER that the cartel members found $8,000 in the vehicle but it looked like his cousin had pocketed the other $12,000 that was supposed to be there. FRAZIER explained how he and his guy searched through the vehicle for several minutes.

So, after the bungled operation, and, an interesting deception by the UCE, where he claimed that the “cousin” had taken $12,000 and left $8,000, that Frazier could not find. He was going to set up the cousin and get him in trouble with the uncle, but now we have a story line that would have gotten the cousin in trouble, and possibly killed, if it was really Cartel money. However, Frazier, apparently, didn’t even consider the shift in the story, and, perhaps, realize that something was fishy.

* * * * * * * * * * * * *

Part 4 – The Second Operation

Now, let’s move into something that sounds more like a gangster movie. On April 9, during a phone call, the following transpired:

FRAZIER asked if the UCE had another job for him. The UCE said he might have something coming up soon. FRAZIER said it looked like the UCE was slowly trying to get his cousin out of the way. The UCE said that was correct. FRAZIER said, “How about I lay an offer out on the table that we just get him out of the way for you.” The UCE asked how they would do that. FRAZIER said he has someone that could take care of it if they could be set up somewhere before the UCE’s cousin arrived. FRAZIER said that they could solidify an ongoing business venture from there. The UCE asked if he is going to have to pay them for killing his cousin and FRAZIER responded, “Yeah, we’ll have to definitely get something monetarily out of it.” FRAZIER said that the UCE would then be in a better position and that his guys are the ones to take care of any other competition that may get in the way of the UCE. FRAZIER said he still can’t believe that they missed the money in the last job. The UCE asked if they want to do one more load vehicle and then take care of his cousin. FRAZIER agreed. FRAZIER said that he is offering the UCE a faster route to get rid of his cousin. FRAZIER said that it won’t be cheap, but it won’t be super expensive. FRAZIER said that he and his guys are mercenaries.

So, now, Frazier is the head of some “mercenaries” and has moved on to “hit” jobs, a hired killer. Frazier has probably never fired on a human being in his life, though he has often claimed that he has.

However, on April 19, the opportunity for Operation #2 begins to come into focus, and Frazier will start looking at taking drugs as well as “cash loads”, in a recorded phone conversation.

The UCE asked if FRAZIER is ready for something on Thursday or Friday. FRAZIER said that those days are good and asks if the UCE would have more intel so FRAZIER can be closer, The UCE said he hopes so, but it depended on what way the backpackers go and when he finds out when they can be there. FRAZIER said that after this job they should meet in person to discuss the other thing (murder for hire) because FRAZIER doesn’t want to talk about that over the phone. FRAZIER again said that Thursday or Friday would work for him because that gives him time to take care of some things and to brief up his guys. FRAZIER asked what kind of impact it would have if he had 3 – 5 guys pick off the load (drug load) as well. The UCE said he is still trying to make his cousin look bad so it would be better if they didn’t take the drugs.

On April 23, this Operation was conducted. This time, Frazier and crew got the “cash load” they had been seeking. It began with a phone call:

The UCE asked if FRAZIER was ready. FRAZIER said that they have been ready. The UCE gave him the latitude and longitude coordinates for where they parked the vehicle. FRAZIER verified that there won’t be anyone out there with the vehicle, but there would be people watching them. FRAZIER said that they aren’t really worried about it getting too hot (with the cartel response); they are worried more about LEO (law enforcement officers) than anything else.

Based upon government observation:

FRAZIER and his associate stole $7300 from a staged “cartel load vehicle.” The cash rip was observed by FBI and Phoenix PD surveillance and captured by video surveillance equipment outside the vehicle and audio/video equipment inside the vehicle.

This was followed by a phone call:

The UCE asked how it went. FRAZIER said there was only $7300. The UCE said his cousin must have taken the rest of the money when he was driving the vehicle down there. The UCE said he’s got to sort everything out. FRAZIER told him to do that and then call if he has another job. The UCE said they should meet up to discuss the other thing (murder for hire).

Two people have confided that they spoke with Frazier during this two month interval and he had told them that he was in a motel in Flagstaff, had just ordered two hookers and some pizza, in an effort to recruit at least those two, and then demonstrate that what he was doing was beginning to pay off. Both sources wisely declined his offer.

* * * * * * * * * * * * *

Part 5 – The Third Operation & Bust

It appears that Foster was recruited about this time, perhaps to replace Randon Berg.

Then, in a phone conversation on June 21:

The UCE said he hasn’t been able to get a hold of FRAZIER for a while. FRAZIER said he picked up a job in the Midwest [Flagstaff?] and has been out of town. The UCE said he had everything set up (for the murder for hire) but he was never able to get a hold of FRAZIER. FRAZIER said he had to leave in a hurry for a job and didn’t have his burn phone with him. The UCE asked if they are still going to do stuff. FRAZIER said he was going to ask the UCE the same question. He said he knows they missed the opportunity in California [this is not explained] and told the UCE to tell him if he had any more ideas. The UCE asked if FRAZIER wanted anything else in the meantime while they earned back each other’s trust. FRAZIER asked if the UCE knows of any cash that could be “jumped up on.” The UCE said cash will be hard since it is so hot, but they could do some regular loads that the UCE could buy off of them or sell and then get FRAZIER the money. FRAZIER said they could do that and asked when the next job would be. The UCE said he will start looking. The UCE asked if FRAZIER was willing to take down some loads and FRAZIER said he would like to grab the cash and then wait for the load to show up. The UCE said he won’t be able to get the cash until he sold the load off. FRAZIER clarified that the UCE knew of some loads that they could rip and then get the money from the UCE for the drugs.

So, now we are seeing Frazier getting set up for what turned into the drug possession bust. Then we have a June 28 phone conversation where Operation #3 is beginning to be discussed.

FRAZIER asked what the UCE has. The UCE said he has a load coming up in late July. FRAZIER asked what will be in the vehicle. The UCE said it will be between six to ten kilograms of cocaine, maybe a little more. FRAZIER asked what the UCE is willing to pay for it and the UCE replied that he will pay FRAZIER $15,000 per kilo. FRAZIER said that is good, he just wanted to know the details of where and when with enough time so he could plan. FRAZIER said they will definitely do this one, but then said he wants to talk to his teammates first to make sure everyone was on-board. The UCE said he will be able to pay FRAZIER on delivery of the drugs. They agreed to talk again about it as they get more details. FRAZIER said he is meeting with his group next weekend to discuss everything.

The plan began to come together, as explained in this July 10 phone conversation:

The UCE asked if everything is good. FRAZIER said it is all good on his end. The UCE said that his buddy called him and said he should be driving up the load vehicle on the 19th, 20th, or 21st. The UCE also told FRAZIER that the group will probably use a warehouse located off of Interstate 17. FRAZIER said that works for him. The UCE said he and his buddy would take care of the other guy (entertain the security guard) so FRAZIER didn’t have to worry about him. FRAZIER asked how long he will have for the rip. The UCE said FRAZIER would have some time, but he couldn’t take too long. FRAZIER said he just needs 45 minutes. They discussed finding a place for them to meet up as they got closer to the rip.

More details emerged on July 20, in the following phone conversation:

FRAZIER asked if the UCE has good news for him. The UCE said that the driver will head up to Phoenix on Wednesday (July 22nd ) with the load vehicle. FRAZIER asked what time it will be and the UCE said that they would start driving in the morning and arrive in Phoenix in the afternoon. FRAZIER asked if the UCE has an idea where it will be stashed. The UCE said that it will be in a warehouse area off of I-17. FRAZIER said that is a big area and asked if it would be south of I-10 or north of I-10. The UCE said he doesn’t know yet because they used different places. The UCE asked if FRAZIER was good with it and FRAZIER said yes. FRAZIER said his guys were ready to move right now and they were all good to go. The UCE said he already had the stuff sold off to potential buyers so he could get the money to FRAZIER soon afterward. FRAZIER said that their only concerns are getting the package. FRAZIER said that he already had two spots picked out in the east valley where they can do the exchange with the UCE for the cocaine. The UCE said he will meet up with FRAZIER real quick beforehand and then show FRAZIER the location of the drugs. FRAZIER said that his guys thought it was going down today, but he was good with waiting until Wednesday. The UCE reiterated that he wanted to make sure FRAZIER and his guys (later identified as ROBERT DEATHERAGE and ERIK FOSTER) were good because he has buyers already. FRAZIER asked how much (cocaine) will be there and the UCE said it would most likely be 10 kilos, maybe more. FRAZIER said that was good and they already agreed on a price, so he told the UCE to call him Wednesday morning. FRAZIER said he would meet up with the UCE to have him show him where the drugs are and that his guys will be following them around. He said his guys were ready to go at the drop of a hat. The UCE said he just wanted to make sure it was done nice and professional so they could keep doing it a couple more times in the future. FRAZIER said his guys are good to go. The UCE asked if they’ve done this before and FRAZIER responded that they have. FRAZIER said they’ve done a lot of different things and they have all acquired a body count on different continents. FRAZIER said this will be a walk in the park as long as everything was cool on the UCE’s end and no “heat” was drawn in. FRAZIER said that if “heat” was there, there would be a firefight and that would be the last time they do business together. The UCE said no one will be there.

July 22, 2015, the really big day comes around. Frazier had bought bolt cutters to break the warehouse lock. Everything was a go. He met with the source that morning, in Phoenix,

to discuss final details of the drug rip. FBI surveillance observed FRAZIER, DEATHERAGE and FOSTER follow the UCE in a black Toyota Camry driven by FOSTER to a warehouse located on 39th Avenue in Phoenix, Arizona. The Toyota Camry did not have a license plate on the vehicle. Surveillance then observed the Camry drive around the vicinity of the warehouse for approximately 15 minutes in an apparent reconnaissance of the site. Eventually, the Camry containing all three defendants drove up to the warehouse gate and stopped. Surveillance observed FRAZIER and FOSTER exit the Camry and FRAZIER cut the lock on the gate. FRAZIER and FOSTER then proceeded on foot into the gated area of the warehouse. This gated area of the warehouse was under recorded video observation in addition to being observed by FBI surveillance. While under recorded video observation, FRAZIER gained access to a Hyundai Tucson while FOSTER acted as security. The Hyundai Tucson contained one package of actual cocaine weighing approximately one kilogram and nine packages of cocaine stimulant that also weighed approximately one kilogram each. These packages were wrapped in red plastic wrap and secured with packaging tape. While under recorded observation, FRAZIER grabbed six of the packages, including the one containing actual cocaine. Surveillance then observed FRAZIER and FOSTER proceed on foot back to the Camry where DEATHERAGE was waiting in the driver’s seat. The Camry containing the three defendants, drove away from the warehouse at a high rate of speed. As they were departing, FBI SWAT attempted to stop the Camry by pursuing it in several vehicles all of which were flashing their emergency lights and sounding their police sirens. The Camry didn’t yield and continued to flee from FBI SWAT at a high rate of speed. In the interest of public safety, the chase was called off, but surveillance of the Camry was maintained via an FBI aircraft. Surveillance observed one of the subjects throw a bag out of the window of the Camry in the vicinity of 43rd Avenue and Grand Avenue in Phoenix. This bag was eventually recovered by an FBI surveillance team and contained the six packages that had been removed from the Hyundai Tucson by FRAZIER, including the package containing the actual cocaine. Surveillance continued to follow the Camry and observed it pull into a garage of a residence located at on East Anderson Avenue in Phoenix, Arizona. FBI SWAT then surrounded the residence and called out all of the occupants, including FRAZIER, DEATHERAGE, and FOSTER who were placed under arrest. The fourth occupant was Frazier’s girlfriend, who was renting the property. Signed written consent to search the property was acquired from the Frazier’s girlfriend and during a subsequent search of the residence, and numerous rifles, assault rifles, and handguns were seized as evidence.

What good story doesn’t have a chase scene? However, it appears that Frazier, et al, failed to scope out the area, for surely they would have found the FBI SWAT vehicles, and the all of the other law enforcement personnel.

In the final scene of what now begins to look like a comedy, we have Frazier waiving Miranda (damned dumb), and telling all — on his buddies. Heck, don’t make them work to get a conviction, just hand it over to them.

Oh, yes, that final scene:

FRAZIER was interviewed after his arrest at the FBI building in Phoenix and the interview was recorded on video and audio. After waiving his Miranda rights, FRAZIER admitted to conducting the drug rip at the warehouse with DEATHERAGE and FOSTER and stated they intended to sell the stolen cocaine to the UCE later that day for a total and splitting the money evenly between the three of them. FRAZIER admitted that during the rip, he was carrying a pistol and had his assault rifle stored in the getaway vehicle. FRAZIER also stated that during the rip DEATHERAGE and FOSTER also had assault rifles and pistols in their possession and that these firearms were among those seized from the East Anderson residence. FRAZIER also admitted that near an intersection with Grand Avenue, while fleeing from the FBI SWAT units, they threw a bag out of the passenger side of the Camry and that this bag contained the stolen drugs.

When we look at the players and their very subjective purpose, for personal gain, we have to wonder whether they can be truly called patriots. A patriot is looking to serve his country, not himself. When the proceeds of their activities go into personal pleasures, rather than improving their mission capabilities, they have removed themselves from the cause and demonstrated that they are simply using the claim of patriotism for their own purposes.

There are lessons to be learned with this story, but most importantly, don’t trust anyone until you have done a thorough job of vetting them, including following someone claiming to be a “source” to see where he goes from the meeting, and then to where he goes to spend the night. That extra effort may save you twenty years of your life.

Terrorism? or, An Act of War?

The Oklahoma City Bombing

Gary Hunt
Outpost of Freedom
May 11, 1995 (republished August 4, 2015)

[Note: This article was written over twenty years ago. It is republished with minor revisions. You can probably, with your knowledge of recent events, supplement what has been presented.]

Dresden, Germany, February 1945 — A series of allied bombing raids resulted in virtual firestorms, nearly destroying this city, which dated from the early 13th century, along with many of its centuries old architectural landmarks. Over 135,000 people, the vast majority being women and children, died during these raids.

Japan, August 1945 — Hiroshima, Japan, three-fifths of the city destroyed, along with 75,000 people, mostly women and children. Just a few days later, another atomic bomb was dropped on Nagasaki, destroying half the city and killing another 75,000 people, again, mostly women and children. These three events killed 285,000 people, yet they were acts of war, and were intended to end World War II.

During the “Vietnam War,” Haiphong, the major North Vietnamese city, was bombed over and over, and in 1972 the harbor was mined. Much of the city was destroyed and tens of thousands lost their lives. There was, however, no “declaration of war” to justify these acts, yet we perceive them to be Acts of War.

April 15, 1986, in a strategic operation, naval air forces attacked military targets in Tripoli, Libya. One of those targets was the home of Muammar Qaddafi. Hundreds were killed, yet no “declaration of war” had existed between the United States and Libya.

December 20, 1989, United States forces, under the operational name “Just Cause”, invaded Panama with the purported purpose of arresting Manuel Noriega on drug trafficking and money laundering charges. Hundreds died, and significant damage to the capital of Panama resulted. After trial, in December 1992, the federal judge from Miami ruled that Noriega was a “prisoner of war.”

On January 15, 1991, unified forces from 31 nations began a new form of warfare (without declaration) against Iraq. For five weeks smart missiles and smart bombs were directed against, the capital, Baghdad. Smart bombs were able to enter ventilation stacks of bomb shelters, killing women and children without destroying the shelter. Cruise missiles traveled hundreds of miles to explode close to their targets, killing tens of thousands of civilians in this new game of attrition. Never, however, a treaty of peace, for there was never a “declaration of war.”

These acts are not considered to be acts of “terrorism”, for they occurred during the course of a war. It is quite clear that during a war, acts, which might otherwise be considered below the dignity of man, can occur and be accepted as a consequence of war. If there is a war and thousands die, those deaths are written off as a consequence of war. Even without the accepted, and constitutionally required, declaration of war, war can be waged against innocent civilians with no effort made for discrimination of targets.

Since the “Declaration of War” has, apparently, become an unnecessary act; perhaps we can find a way of determining when a war exists by other means. In the Academic American Encyclopedia, under “court”, we find that, “Courts fulfill three important functions: (1) they resolve disputes that, while often routine, are crucial to those involved; (2) they provide protection from illegal actions by government and individuals; and (3) occasionally, they resolve disputes of great political and social significance.” Clearly, then under a normal circumstance, “protection from illegal acts by government” should leave the government open to be punished by the court. One can reasonably conclude that a state of war exists when government commits illegal acts against a people, with impunity.

No judicial process will hold the victors to task. Justice must be set aside during time of war, which is clearly affirmed in the Constitution (Article I, Section 9, clause 2, dealing with Habeas Corpus, and, Article V, Bill of Rights, dealing with exemption from Grand Jury process). So, perhaps, a state of war (since declarations have become a thing of the past) can best be determined by the fact that no trials are held to determine justice, or injustice, for the deaths that are a consequence of hostile action. How else, in this modern age, can the determination be made that a war even existed?

This being the case, perhaps we should look around and see if there are other wars going on, perhaps at this very moment. Maybe we should start back in August 1992. Hostilities broke out and, in the first incident, two “men” were killed. Hostilities ceased for a few days, but, then, another act of senseless murder occurred when Vicki Weaver stood in her doorway and was killed by a single sniper’s bullet. Well, this was clearly not a war since a trial was held. Unfortunately, even though three people were killed, no one was found guilty. This, then, must be a war, because war crimes trials were held, but the heinous offender could not be identified.

Just a few months later, another war began. This war lasted 51 days and the subsequent war crimes trials were held almost a year later. We know that this was a war because nine people were found guilty of killing (or other related acts of complicity) four men who were dressed and equipped as soldiers.

We can determine which side each side was on in these last two incidents by looking at a couple of factors. First was the uniform. One side chose black military uniforms, complete with web gear, automatic rifles, tanks, helicopters, grenades and other modern implements of war. The other side wore normal clothes — jeans, dresses, sneakers, etc., and used simple, legal weapons. They also sought refuge in their home and place of worship. The final indicator is that they fired only in self-defense. And, it must be war, since even the commanding general at the Justice Department in Washington, D.C. never described the acts of the enemy as terrorism.

On April 22, 1993, I left Waco, after 47 days, to return to Florida. I remember that I was somewhat dumbfounded by the events of April 19, and until I returned to Waco, in mid May, had not been able to sort out certain thoughts. When I returned to Waco, and finally stood on the concrete that was once the floor of the Mt. Carmel church, I looked around and saw partially burned remnants of utensils, clothes, books, letters, and toys, indicative of the lives once lived, and since lost, here. I recalled similar situations in Vietnam, and realized that a state of war existed here, in the United States of America. I realized that I was at war with the United States Government, but, that the war that I was in was still a “cold war”. Not so for those who died in those ashes, but for many, a state of war had begun.

After the Oklahoma City Bombing, we heard the battle cry come up from the side wearing black uniforms, “Terrorism,” they yell, over and over again. “Terrorism, it’s unfair, and they killed women and children. Terrorism, there is no other word for it.”

Many leaders who were on the side of the patriots also take up the battle cry. Many, who just a few years before, cried out that the surprise attacks by the Black uniformed soldiers were acts of war, now cry terrorism along with their enemies of the recent past. “Condemn them,” they yell. “Hang them after a quick and speedy trial. They are not warriors; they are cowards. Hang them, be done with them”. The cry came out from all those leaders who, so recently professed, to be on the side of the patriots.

Meanwhile, many who, just a few years before, had taken the battle cry of “Do whatever is necessary to end this mess,” are now questioning the fairness of the actions of the black uniforms, and beginning to understand why the poorly equipped soldiers of the other side have resorted to an act that cost 167 lives.

Perhaps it might be best to dispel the association of “baby killer” with the act that occurred in Oklahoma City. Since the sixties, the construction of federal buildings has been an “anti-terrorist” design. Since the bombing of Flight 103 (December 1988), we have been advised that federal buildings are potential targets of such bombings. As we learned from Waco, keeping your children in a location that has danger associated with it leaves the responsibility on the parent, not the aggressor. In fact, I never knew that there were day care centers in federal buildings. I supposed, prior to April 19, that the government had enough concern for children to move day care centers to a locations away from what it knew to be potential targets.

The determination of what constitutes an act of terrorism has to be defined by each of us, individually. It cannot be left to a government which controls the weapons of war, the streets, the language, and the press, to make that determination for us. If we allow this to happen, the stigma that will be placed on any act, whether it be the self-defensive actions against four BATF agents killed while assaulting a church in Texas, or a U. S. Marshall who has just killed a dog and a fourteen year old boy (Sammy Weaver), or bombing a federal building where people who chose to be employees of a government run amuck. We must resist succumbing to the need for approval by such controlling entities.

This leaves us, then, with the question:

Was this an Act of Terrorism? or, an Act of War?

Jon Ritzheimer
When did Freedom of Speech Become Hate Speech?

Gary Hunt
Outpost of Freedom
June 3, 2015

Jon was born in San Diego County, California in 1983. He was raised in Lakeside and graduated from El Capitan High School. He worked briefly after high school in construction, though having no direction, decided to join the Marines in 2002.

Most of his military service was stateside, though he served a tour in Iraq in 2004-2005. He was a Motor Vehicle Operator (MOS 3531), stationed in Ramadi. He did convoy security and was subjected to gunfire and IED attacks. He returned to Iraq in 2008, this time operating an MRAP, which he lived in “outside the wire”, eating, drinking, sleeping, and living in the MRAP for five months. No showers and the toilet was a “wag bag”.

His time in service included adverse reports due to his criticism of Obama, and having tattoos that were outside of the policy limits. This caused him to not reenlist. He continued in the Marine Reserves until 2014. During his service he received the standard combat awards and a certificate of commendation for one of the actions in which he was involved. It might be worth noting that he was never fired upon by any Christians, throughout either tour.

Jon married in 2007, then, after leaving the Marines, began using his GI benefits to get an education. First, he worked for a Harley-Davidson dealer, then left to set up his own motorcycle repair business, which he ran until the threats that were being put out caused him to look to the safety of his family, which now included daughters 2 and 4 years old.

Jon is much like many thousands of Americans who pursued life, served their country, educated themselves, and began working to support a family, eventually having his own business.

Seeing, as many do, that Muslims are attempting to establish Shariah Courts, impose Shariah law requiring women to be covered, ankle to the top of their heads, Ritzheimer became concerned over the potential effect of Islam in this country. It wasn’t quite enough for any more than concern, but he did remember what he had seen in Iraq. How can freedom of speech be denied, not by government, rather, by the threat of the use of force?

The recent “Draw Mohamed” event in Texas, and the attempt by two Muslims from the Phoenix Muslim Center, to assassinate those who had gathered for the event, hit a nerve. Our right to freedom of speech is unquestionably one of the most important rights that we Americans have. To assert that right, and to show that Americans will not allow intimidation to force us to relinquish even the smallest bit of that right, led him to conceive of the Freedom of Speech Rally. The first Rally, on May 17, getting little attention, and had only a few participants. However, being a Marine (there is no such thing as an ex-Marine); he was determined to get the job done by organizing the second Rally, held this past Friday, May 29.

This Rally brought hundreds to the Mosque, both pro Free Speech and those who mistook the purpose of the Rally, on the other side of the road, to defend Islam.

This second Rally managed to get attention, not only in Phoenix, but nationally. Unfortunately, as the press often does, they “rewrote” the purpose of the rally in an effort to demonize Ritzheimer and try to turn a Freedom of Speech Rally into a “Hate Rally”. Ritzheimer began to fear for his safety, and the safety of his family. He began to question whether this event, at a mosque, would lead a situation similar to that which was attempted in Texas, and was successfully carried out in France. So much for Freedom of Speech and the Press. However, the theme was that we would not be intimidated into not speaking what we want, in our own country.

Ritzheimer admits that the shirt he wore at the Rally, amply stating “F**k Islam” was not in good taste, and he regrets it. He told me that he has a hard time believing that, since there are so many Muslims out there, they can all be bad (prone to accept radicalism). However, his reading of the Koran raises questions, though some Muslims may sincerely believe that we can live in harmony. He also apologizes to all Muslims of the latter sort.

As the attention to the Rally went national, and the press chose to redefine its purpose, Ritzheimer began to fear for his safety, the safety of his family and those attending the event. Questioning whether going to the mosque might subject them to the consequences that were attempted in Texas, and successful in France. Subsequently, he began to encourage the lawful carrying of firearms to the event, as a means of self-defense against any attempt by the Muslims to use force to suppress freedom of speech.

As the event drew near, friends, and even people unknown to Ritzheimer, informed him of the reaction from what appears to be the Muslim community, quite possibly from as far away as ISIS in Iraq is.

Note that the military advised prior service members to use caution, giving credibility on the part of the government, to the implied threat because of messages similar to these:

(Note: SAW (Sallah Allah Alayhi Wa Aaleh) = Peace be upon him and his household.)

As apprehensive as he was at the start of the Rally, he was relieved to see that the police department had done the unexpected. They “Police Line” taped both curb lines to keep the two sides apart, and then stationed their officers along the centerline of Orangewood Avenue, facing the officers in alternating directions, so that neither side was singled out by the neutral police department, who was there only to assure the safety of all concerned.

Though Jon realizes, now, that the Free Speech Rally could easily be misconstrued, regardless of what he intended, he still believes in, and stands for, the right of Americans to speak freely what they feel. Regardless of whether an inverted crucifix in a jar of urine expresses Freedom of Speech, or a carton drawing of Mohammed, Freedom of Speech is essential to the continuation of our great nation. Jon will continue to support that freedom, just as he supported it when he went, willingly, to Iraq to assure the Iraqis had a chance to establish that right.

Jon Ritzheimer is praised for supporting freedom of speech in the Muslim country of Iraq, and then condemned for supporting free speech in the country that sent him to Iraq. Those who have condemned Jon Ritzheimer, by so doing, have condemned the very fabric of our country.

April 19, 2015

Gary Hunt
Outpost of Freedom
April 19, 2015

Twenty years ago, today, the Murrah Federal Courthouse, in Oklahoma City, was bombed by a patriot who intended to light the fuse of violent resistance to the government’s overarching, and deadly, imposition upon the rights of the people. Some of the motivation behind this act was a response to the efforts of government, just two years earlier, to divest some people of their right to bear arms, and other infringements of the Constitution.

Twenty-two years ago, today, agencies of the federal government murdered over 80 people; in Waco, Texas; men, women, and children, in their own home/Church. Again, divesting the right to bear arms, and other constitutional infringements were the underlying elements in this event.

Two-hundred and forty years ago, today, more than 80 men stood on Lexington Green to demonstrate dissatisfaction with the government’s effort to divest them of their constitutional and sacred right to keep arms.

Today, K. C. Massey’s attorney, Louis Sorola, filed (electronically) a Motion to Dismiss the Indictment upon which the government’s case against Massey rests. That motion is an objection to the government’s attempt to divest Massey of his right to bear arms, by overreaching constitutional authority.

There are two elements in each of these events. First, arms; Second, the Constitution

Now, the government and Mainstream Media downplay the latter and demonize the former. And, that has become the underlying creed of law enforcement, as demonstrated by the short (45 second) video clip, “Sheriff’s Deputy Admits MRAPs Are For Constitutionalists“. Though the jurisdiction and the date of the video are not known (unless someone comes forward with that information), it is apparent that the two deputies are serious in what they say:

Deputy #1: “We’ve got a lot of constitutionalists and a lot of people that stockpile weapons, a lot of ammunition, and they have [intelligible] weapons here locally.”

So, the first Deputy sees danger in “constitutionalists” stockpiling weapons and ammo. He sounds a lot like General Gage, military governor of Massachusetts.

Deputy #2: “It’s worldwide. The world is unstable now; you look anywhere, you watch the news.”

As to the second, what is “worldwide”? The fear of constitutionalists is an international problem? “Hey, buddy! Yeah, you, the deputy, don’t you work for this county? What are you doing dealing in international matters?”

As George Santayana said, “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.“

Have we learned? Can we remember? What, possibly, can the government do to return to the Constitution, and avoid the violence that they have already begun?

Let us not slide further into that abyss of abject slavery and obedience to a government that was supposed to belong to us.

Government’s purpose is to govern the Government,
Not to govern the People.

Waco – A Lesson in History

Part IV
The FLIR Project

Gary Hunt
Outpost of Freedom
March 4, 2015

The “Rules of Engagement” documentary brought forth the possibility that the infra-red imagery (FLIR – Forward Looking Infra-Red) taken by the FBI showed that snipers were shooting into Mt. Carmel Church, keeping those inside from exiting during the fire. The Danforth Commission ordered a “re-creation” of the event, at least with regard to gunfire and FLIR, as to whether the imagery could possibly pick up gunfire, and, if so, would it appear as represented in the documentary. The results of this government exercise were included in the Danforth report.

When the producers of the two documentaries reviewed the report, they questioned the accuracy of the “re-creation”, and found that many of the methods were, to say the least, fabrications, since different rifles and ammunition were used.

“Waco – The FLIR Project” (34:10) reviews the government testing and conducts their own, using correct weapons, ammunition, and as much as possible, other conditions existing on April 19, 1993.

The viewer will have to judge, however, the last ten minutes of this study leaves with the understanding that if the study was properly conducted, it provides convincing proof that the FBI imagery from April 19 does show that there was automatic gunfire directed towards at least two locations, during the fire, which resulted in the deaths of over eighty people, including women, children, and infants.

Links to the other parts:

Waco A Lesson in History – Part I – Looking Back at Waco

Waco A Lesson in History – Part II – Rules of Engagement

Waco A Lesson in History – Part III – A New Revelation

Escalation – What’s Next?

Gary Hunt
Outpost of Freedom
January 12, 2015

We need to get a perspective on the patriot community that has been overlooked, probably because most of the people within our community are, although sincere, focused only where they stand on the “progression of involvement” (See The Other (not so) Thin Line) within their own community. Quite simply, many have still maintained that the election process is able to effect the change that we seek, while ignoring the failure of that process over the past many decades. Next, we have those who have recognized the failure of that process, but don’t know where to go. Then there are those who realize that nothing will change without violence, though they are not motivated, for whatever reason, to pursue that objective. Finally, there are those who are ready to act, though they are constrained by their fear of other patriots as much as their fear of the government.

Let’s put another perspective on the relationship between various groups of people who are known to commit violent acts. First, we have the Muslims. They are, by Mainstream Media (MSM), divided into two categories, Extreme and Moderate. The Extremes perpetrate violent acts such as the well-known beheading of Westerners, directed attacks with rifles, as in Canada and Paris, France, and many other activities such as the Boston Bombing, that have cost the lives of innocent people without any justifiable targeting of those killed. The moderates, however, sit quietly by, acting as if nothing is going wrong, yet they won’t object to the actions of the extremes. (See Can Muslims fit into our society? Is There a Difference Between a “Moderate Muslim” and a “Radical Muslim”?)

Next, let’s look at law enforcement in our own country. Most tabulations of the number of unarmed people killed by law enforcement, this past year, approach or exceed 1,000. This doesn’t count those with serious, even lifetime, injuries, damage, or loss of a family pet that “threatened” the officer. Let’s call those cops that conduct these activities, even if only one, or many times, “extreme” cops. The remaining “moderate” cops, even though their job is to enforce the laws of the land, state, etc., do not arrest or charge their fellow officers, they do, however, offer support, if only by inaction, and will readily defend those officers who have, “for their own safety”, committed such acts. Not much different from those moderate Muslims, are they? (See To shoot a cop, or, not to shoot a cop)

Finally, we get to the Patriots who realize that things are getting worse with each administration of government. Within that group, we have both “moderate” patriots and “extreme” patriots. The extreme patriots are those who are ready and willing to act, and often those contemplated acts, though directed, might result in the loss of innocent lives. A example of this would by the April 19, 1995, bombing of the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City. (See below)

Where the moderate patriots are making a mistake, to use the words of Chief Mark Kessler, is that we all “have an obligation to turn in to the government anybody who is going to do something that will cost innocent lives”. That quote is from a recent conversation I had with Kessler. What happened resulted in the arrest of three men in Georgia is explained in Mark Kessler – The “Screw” Turns – Part 3. The FBI promulgated the suggestion that innocent lives would be lost when they interviewed “Blood Agent” This theme was carried on by Kessler and the MSM, that their acts would be random and would take innocent lives. However, recently the government has, in their official Indictment, made clear that “The three men were being monitored by the FBI in an online chat room where they discussed launching attacks at an Atlanta police station and other government agencies.” Initial MSM reports did not detail the limitations that the FBI placed upon the acts that the three had intended, making their plot to be far more sinister than it really was.

Mainstream Media often plays an important role in demonization. An example of this is the Hutaree Militia (2012-13), as explained in Thought Crimes, where the media, probably at the instigation of the government, laid out a story that was, well, fabricated. Otherwise, the Court would not have eventually dismissed the charges.

Our susceptibility to these divisive means of splitting our ranks is a result of “propaganda” and our willingness to judge those within our movement, turning against them if what they may, or may not, have planned is beyond our current (where we are along that Thin Line – linked above) conviction as to what is acceptable, and what is not.

So, Muslim moderates and Law Enforcement moderates both support their extreme elements. Patriots, however, turn against our extreme elements, and, we turn them over to the government — our enemy, in our efforts to restore proper constitutional limits upon the government.

We will have to visit the past to get a better understanding of what I mean. In 1995, Tim McVeigh bombed a government building. Outrage was the response of the patriots, since there were innocent women and children in the building. McVeigh explained why he targeted a government building when he wrote “Why I bombed the Murrah Federal Building“. Now, where could he possibly get the idea that it was a “retaliatory strike, and that federal agents had become soldiers… it was a preemptive or proactive strike… against their control center.”

In a Philadelphia Enquirer article, dated April 9, 1999, during NATO’s Yugoslavia (Kosovo and Serbia) War, declared, with full support of the Pentagon, that,

“In the air war, Pentagon officials said NATO’s warplanes would increasingly target government buildings, industries and state-run television relays in an attempt to shake the foundation of President Slobodan Milosevic’s regime [5th paragraph in the article].”

This practice has been carried through in all subsequent “wars” that we have been involved in, unless the government buildings were deemed friendly.

Let’s suppose that anybody that is a patriot can find the point on this list where they would feel comfortable. Go ahead, pick your number. Now, think back. Where were you a year ago? Two years ago? Presumably, you have progressed, as you realize the failure of your earlier position.

1. Voting for a political party
2. Voting for individuals (based upon their record)
3. Mass meetings to discuss problems (Tea Party, or other participation)
4. Street demonstrations (Overpass, etc.)
5. Trips to Washington for demonstrations (OAS, Veterans, truck drivers, tractors, etc.)
6. Civil disobedience (subjecting yourself to arrest by expressing yourself – Freedom of Speech)
7. Civil defiance (willing to retaliate with force, such as Bundy Ranch or the WWII veterans memorial)
8. Sabotage of government property (vehicles, etc.)
9. Breaking into government facilities (intelligence information, equipment, & supplies)
10. Sabotage of government property (destroying electronics, communication towers, etc.)
11. Targeting individuals with proven abuse of authority resulting in injury or destruction of property
12. Targeting individuals with proven abuse of authority resulting in death/serious injury of unarmed people
13. Targeting individuals who work for government
14. Sabotage of government property (destruction of facilities)
15. Destruction of Infrastructure Utilities (Primarily serving Government facilities)
16. Prison breaks (selectively releasing political prisoners)
17. Ambushes (of targeted government vehicles or convoys)
18. Destruction of a Government Building (night time)
19. Raids (police stations, fusion centers, etc.)
20. Destruction of a Government Building (day time)
21. Prison breaks (releasing all prisoners)
22. Destruction of Infrastructure Utilities – Primarily serving general population

Just for kicks, now suppose where you will be if Hillary becomes president, or the police kill another thousand unarmed people this year, or, well, use your imagination as to what events may change you position — move higher in the numbers of the list. That should bring to light what was explained in “The Other (not so) Thin Line“.

We should be able to understand that each of us has, through our own experience, found that we continue to move into a greater sense of necessity, if we are to restore constitutional government. The problem arises when we insist that others cannot go beyond where we are.

Unfortunately, if we continue to pursue this course, we chop off the experienced head, those who have, by their experiences, moved further along that line. Does it make any sense, at all, to have such a detrimental effect on our community, just because we want to constrain them to what we impose upon ourselves?

Think very hard before you do anything that sets us back rather than moves us ahead.

The Declaration of Independence Has Been Outlawed

Gary Hunt
Outpost of Freedom
January 9, 2015

“[W]hen long trains of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide for new guards for their future security.”

Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776

With those words, the War for Independence from British Rule began, in earnest. That Declaration of Independence is the premier founding document, for, absent the fortitude of those who supported it, with their lives, fortunes, sacred honor, and their willingness to die in the battle to contest the overreaching authority of British Rule, in violation of the British Constitution, the United States Constitution would never have been conceived. Instead, for the first time in the history of man, the people were the source of the authority that created the government.

Murder and theft, crime against people and property, are broken down into degrees of severity. That is the means by which certain crimes are graded, and punished, based upon the people assembled in a jury — so that the will of the people is supreme, and the government simply carries out the administrative function of the process of Justice.

What happens when the government enacts laws that make it a more serious crime to kill because of an emotion? They call them “hate crimes”, though they seem to be applied in only one direction. The result is that only a certain class of people can have harsher penalties applied, because the government says so, than if the killing was for money, jealousy, rage, or even random. Simply, the idea is to outlaw certain forms of thought (See Freedom of Speech and Thought Crimes). It is a form of social engineering, or more accurately, reconditioning to comply with the dictates of government’s control of not only our speech, but also our thoughts and actions.

Every state constitution, as well as the United States Constitution, recognizes that the creation of their respective governments, grants of authority, and limitations of power, are sourced from the people, themselves (“We the People”). It was presumed by the Founders that the authority of the people was such that they could, as so stated in the above quote from the Declaration of Independence, abolish a government that violated the limitations, and usurped authority, at the discretion of the people, not the discretion of the government. In fact, if you read closely, they even imposed the responsibility as a “duty”, to assure the perpetuation of the Great Experiment that they had initiated.

The FBI recently (August 20, 2013) published as an FBI Press Release, a description of the United States Code definition of Terrorism (Definition of Terrorism in US Code).

Definitions of Terrorism in the U.S. Code

18 U.S.C. § 2331 defines “international terrorism” and “domestic terrorism” for purposes of Chapter 113B of the Code, entitled “Terrorism”:

“International terrorism” means activities with the following three characteristics:

• Involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
• Appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
• Occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S., or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.*

“Domestic terrorism” means activities with the following three characteristics:

• Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
• Appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
• Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.

18 U.S.C. § 2332b defines the term “federal crime of terrorism” as an offense that:

• Is calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion, or to retaliate against government conduct; and
• Is a violation of one of several listed statutes, including § 930(c) (relating to killing or attempted killing during an attack on a federal facility with a dangerous weapon); and § 1114 (relating to killing or attempted killing of officers and employees of the U.S.).

* FISA defines “international terrorism” in a nearly identical way, replacing “primarily” outside the U.S. with “totally” outside the U.S. 50 U.S.C. § 1801(c).

* * *

So, just to get you thinking about the ramifications and the authority presumed by the government, but not granted by the Constitution, let’s look from the other side. If police use force to “influence or affect the conduct of [people] by intimidation or coercion, or to retaliate against [people’s] conduct”, then they, too, should be guilty of terrorism, especially when they are armed as an army, and protected against most means of assault by use of armor far more invincible than knights of old.

However, like hate crime laws, terrorism is a one-way street. The government cannot be guilty of terrorism, whether around the world, or within the States of the Union, any more than a White person can be the victim of a hate crime.

Despotism (as understood by the Founders – Webster’s 1828 Dictionary)

Absolute power; authority unlimited and uncontrolled by men, constitution or laws, and depending alone on the will of the prince; as the despotism of a Turkish sultan.

If we simply replace “prince” with “president”, and then evaluate whether we have reached that definitive point in our history, then we understand that there is a mandate from our source documents (the Declaration of Independence) that has, in effect, been outlawed by a despotic government.

To shoot a cop, or, not to shoot a cop

Gary Hunt
Outpost of Freedom
January 5, 2015

Recent events have resulted in increased random shootings of police officers, around the country. Though the practice might not be deemed contemptible in one set of circumstances, it might be considered unjustified in the current situation.

Perhaps if we can separate what is acceptable and what is not, we can get a better grasp on what the variation in circumstances might warrant, as opposed to what is not warranted.

The shooting of police officers is a necessary consequence, when done with the proper circumstances, of forcing the government to submit to the will of the people, rather than the people submitting to the will of the government.

In light of both Waco and the Oklahoma City bombing, circumstances were different than those of today. Police force was exerted on the branch Davidians in Waco, resulting in the death of nearly a hundred men, women, and children — at the hands of law enforcement.

The Oklahoma City Bombing, conducted by Timothy McVeigh, was in retaliation for what he had experienced in Iraq and what he observed in Waco. Though we may not agree with his method, surely, his actions were directed at the source of the problem — an overreaching government.

Examples of the circumstances, in the nineties, are explained in two interviews I did at the time, Popping Cops and Breaking the Bonds of Slavery, the latter being more demonstrative of the justification of such actions.

However, the current circumstances, including both the events that lead up to the current furor and the significant change in the nature of law enforcement, have created a bit of a quandary. For example, if a cop is shot, the assumption, in both Mainstream Media (MSM) and the alternative media, will be that it is an act of retaliation for the deaths of Michael Brown and Eric Garner. This based upon the outrageous calling for killing any, and all, cops. Not that it would be outrageous under the proper circumstances, though that is lost in the current media hype, and there is little possibility of extracting an act against government from the story, if that were the motivation. Surely, the cops, if they caught the shooter alive, would sequester him so tightly that any story he had would never see the light of day. In addition, the presumption of retaliation would become the Prima Facie Story.

The perspective then would perhaps be “the right thing to do, for the wrong reason. It would place the patriot community in a position of supporting the “don’t shoot me, I’m black” crowd, without regard to the fact that black cops have shot both unarmed black and white people, and that most crimes, and killings, of blacks are by blacks.

During the sixties, the anti-war movement was intertwined with the black rights movement, placing the strictly “end the war in Vietnam” crowd with the mantle of black rights support or Women’s Liberation, though untrue to significant numbers of the anti-war crowd. They were stigmatized, by the press, into what they were not.

The same consequence is likely to occur, today, by tying the “restoration of constitutional government” group inextricably, to the “don’t shoot me, I’m black” crowd, which will co-join the two in the press, and might likely become a damper on, or destroyer of, the patriot movement.

However, there may be a solution — one that would provide a distinction, and also bring to light the fact that cops don’t discriminate because of color, when they kill unarmed people. They also kill unarmed whites, as well as other races, with the same impunity that they do when they kill blacks.

This past March (2014), Albuquerque Police Officer Keith Sandy shot and killed James Boyd, for illegal camping. Boyd was white, as was Sandy. However, there is complete video footage of the event, and leaves, without a doubt, the guilt on both Sandy, the other officers on the scene, and the entire police department that justified what can be called nothing but “murder”.

There are many that believe that Darren Wilson, who shot Brown, may well have been justified, as there had already been aggressive physical contact while Wilson was still in his patrol car.

When NYPD officer Daniel Pantaleo used a chokehold, or other restraint method, resulting, directly or indirectly, in the death of Eric Garner, the justification for Pantaleo’s action and the cause of death are not so clear.

Of these three events, the clearest, in terms of justification of the officer’s actions is Wilson/Brown event. Next, we have the murky events surrounding the Pantaleo/Garner incident, though this seems to be the motivation for the current outrage. Finally, we have the Sandy/Boyd event, where clearly there was no justification for the action resulting in Boyd’s death.

However, the motivation for the “kill the cops” effort stems from the event that seems to have the most justification (Garner), and is supported by the questionable, though newsworthy story (thanks MSM, Mayor de Blasio, and the Executive Branch). This is founded upon the Brown event (thanks MSM and the Executive Branch), and used to support the resulting attitude. While Boyd’s death, the least justifiable, is lost to MSM and the Executive Branch, and seems to only have recognition in the patriot community.

What would bring this into an acceptable realm for the patriot community? Surely, supporting the “kill all cops” attitude can only bring discredit upon us. It might also lead to a race war, as the black verses white issue is predominant.

What if we supported the police position? Well, would we then be supporting those who, by their nature, are not fulfilling their sworn duty to enforce the law, and would also be giving implied support for their killing James Boyd. This, too, might lead to a race war, as the cops are perceived as white — against the blacks.

Is there a position that we can, and should, support? There are two things that can be done to promote both by social/political action and by force that can have a positive effect for the patriot community.

First, we can hold the position that cops are not above the law, and only the people can determine what those limits will be. This can be accomplished by requiring that any time a person is shot, or otherwise physically abused, by a police officer, or any law enforcement officer, unless there is an active gunfight involved, that the matter go to a jury trial, so that the people, of the nation supposed to be governed with the consent of the people, determine whether the act was criminal, or not. That jury determination (not a grand jury where it is at the will of the US Attorney, State Attorney, or County Attorney) will set the standard for what is acceptable, and what is not acceptable, in the eyes of the local community — the local We the People.

Second, that any officer shot be one that is easily identifiable as having abused his authority (as in Sandy/Boyd), and warrants, without jury trial, as the evidence is so clear that guilt can only be ignored by obfuscation. The Internet provides many resources for the gathering of evidence sufficient to make such a determination (See Bad Cops and Targeting). This will have a two-fold effect on law enforcement. It will put those on notice who have not yet crossed the line, that there will possibly be consequences if they do cross that line. This might also lead them to want to distance themselves from those who have crossed the line. And, it will serve the effect suggested in Breaking the Bonds of Slavery.

Breaking the Bonds of Slavery

Gary Hunt
Outpost of Freedom
September 13, 1998

NOTE: This interview was conducted over 16 years ago, and times have changed. It must be read in conjunction with “To shoot a cop, or, not to shoot a cop”, which will put a perspective of on this article, based upon circumstances today.

* * * * *

 I had a conversation with a friend the other day. It turned into a hypothetical scenario, and I decided that it might make a good interview. John agreed. So, what you are about to read is a scenario developed around what COULD have happened in Germany in the mid to late thirties, when some of the German people first began to suspect that Hitler’s Reich was a little bit different than what it was set out to be. Only portions of the interview are included.

OPF: John, how are you, today?

JOHN: Fine Gary, and ready to go.

OPF: Okay, John, why don’t you lay out the basis for the scenario, first.

JOHN: Okay, it is 1938 and some of the people have begun to realize that the government has continued to expand its power, increase its revenue from the people, and imprison those who defy the rules established in this progression of what amounts to a submission to slavery. Now, when I speak of people, I intend that to mean only those who have begun to understand the existence of the problem. The rest of the people I will refer to as “the rest of the people”. The scene, however, is not very much different than the conditions that currently exist in America, except that America has not chosen a scapegoat race to direct negative emotions at. America has selected a portion of the people to direct their negative emotions. But, that is not the story line, so, back to Germany.

* * *

OPF: So, suppose the people of Germany wanted to protect their country from what was, apparently, a step in the wrong direction?

JOHN: Well, I think it was more than apparent. Work forces of citizens, paid from the common treasury, were put to work with shovels, building the Autobahn, and other public works projects. Having been denied the right to build an Army after World War I, the government realized that they could build an army with shovels, and then replace the shovels with rifles. Close quarter drills, maneuvers, bivouac, the workforce practiced every type of military function. Nobody did anything about it. Most realized that the workforce was training to be an army. Once trained, and given the guns, the government had a police force sufficient to control all of the people. Of course, the local officials were brought in as a part of the military force, and took their orders from the central government, enforcing whatever laws the government passed. It was at this time that the people should have acted. The prosperity for the few who were willing to submit to the government, and enforce their laws, at the expense of the rest of the people, placed them in a position of power. This power was abused, in many cases, but the rest of the people took it, without question — or, at least, not aloud. This, though, would have been the time to strike. Many people still had their rifles and some may have had explosives. Heavy equipment had not been developed for smaller jobs, and so it was not uncommon for farmers and others to have explosives. Had they used these explosives on the government force, random hits by small groups, they would have had an effect.

OPF: You mean that they should have killed the soldiers and the police?

JOHN: Had they killed soldiers and police, in random acts, they would have created more than what was then just a reward scenario for the soldiers and the police. They were acting with impunity, and were fed and paid better than the average worker.

OPF: That would have been dangerous. Wouldn’t they most likely get caught and executed?

JOHN: Many were killed, anyway. Most, eventually, as soldiers in war. Others that resisted were captured and imprisoned, many to die in prison. I suppose that the difference is whether you want to die fighting, or just die. I believe that some of the Germans that I met years ago really regretted what they allowed to have happened. I think that they would have, had they thought that it would get as bad as it did, done something about it.

OPF: Well, what would be the desired result, had they done these random acts of killing?

JOHN: Probably. Most importantly, is that they would have created fear within the government. Kind of like when the Oklahoma City bomb went off. I remember that you had written an article (Escalation & Fear: Fear & Escalation) about how the government had reacted to the bombing. They were scared. From what I have read, very few of those who were in the building have been willing to go back to work for the government. Then, others, like Bob Ricks, from Waco, retired shortly afterwards.

OPF: You mean, the idea of killing people would have been to get them to quit their jobs?

JOHN: That would be fair to say. You know that burglar alarms are as effective as burglar alarm stickers. The burglars see the sticker, and they decide that there may be too much risk and move on to the next house. Likewise, if they think that there is an angry dog inside, they go elsewhere.

OPF: So, killing them is just to scare them?

JOHN: Not exactly. It has a number of other effects, as well. As soon as it started, there would be very few, if any, individual soldiers or policeman doing anything. They would change their uniform before going home, and whenever something had to be done, they would travel in large enough groups to affect their safety. This would reduce the number of active units that could be imposing on the people, or breaking in doorways. It would also have the effect of reducing, or culling the herd. Each dead or injured soldier or policeman would have reduced the force by one. His death would also have a greater impact on his friends, and cause them some concern for what they were doing. I’m pretty sure that they knew what was happening, and this might have just moved them enough to refuse to go along with it. But, this never happened.

OPF: What about the political leaders?

JOHN: Well, there is no doubt that they could have been targets, as well. Had, say, Goering been killed, then much of what he did might never have happened. Just think about the world today. Didn’t we try to kill Gaddafi and Hussein? Didn’t we kill Diem and then plant our man as leader of South Vietnam? Taking the political leaders out is, definitely, a political tool.

* * *

OPF: What about the Deutsches Bank and other institutions that supported the government?

JOHN: Well, there is a lot of support of any government by many institutions in a country. Some may already be influential and others may be seeking influence. They do so on the premise that if they favor the government, they will be favored by the government. The government realizes that it needs all of the support, both financial and industrial, to achieve its purpose. So, each is scratching the other’s back. If something was done to create a risk greater than the benefit, then I think that they would think differently. After all, they, like the government, need employees to do anything. Can you imagine how effective a government would be if nobody worked for it?

* * *

OPF: Now, you have suggested that small groups of people could do this and get away with it. Do you really believe that they could get away with it?

JOHN: There is always a risk. If they were to operate properly — say, a group of two to five people, like they call cells nowadays, planned everything, scoped the job, wore rubber gloves, kept their “work clothes” somewhere else, set up alibis, and really did their homework, I would think that only chance or bad luck would keep them from safely doing their job. The more groups there were, the more thinly they would spread their opposition. And, they would have been wise to have established escape plans, and means to communicate with their families, once the had to flee.

OPF: Given the Gestapo tactics, wouldn’t there be risk of being infiltrated?

JOHN: Yes, there is always that risk. There is also the risk of having someone that is not an infiltrator get caught at something else and turn against his friends to reduce, or remove his punishment for another crime. Remember, you wrote about Don Bunds in Waco, and then there was Michael Fortier. That guy Marshall in West Virginia, and many other cases where informants or infiltrators caused the destruction of even innocent activity — like the Viper Militia. To protect themselves from something like this, they should watch for a change in the nature or actions of one of their members. You’ve seen the old black and white movies where someone gives himself away by having to make a call, or sneaks out, or some other activity. Every caution would have to have been taken to keep Gestapo informants from infiltrating, and if suspicion existed, plans would have to have been changed, or, maybe, the member taken out. No trial, but the possibility of error rather than the risk of losing the cell. If cells had to communicate, only one member of any given cell would be known to any of the other cells. Only one man could go down that way. This guy would have to be chosen by the others as the most stoic. The Gestapo could be pretty cruel when they wanted to be. Eventually, as successes were achieved, I think that it would have become more open, just like in France. Major operations were conducted after the cells were tried and hardened. Their communication became more wide based, even to the point of the BBC broadcasting instructions to various groups via the radio. By then, the cells were hardened and the chance if infiltration was almost non-existent. Had that happened in Germany, there would not be nearly as many American graves across the European countryside.

* * *

OPF: When should the people have begun acting in this way?

JOHN: It probably never would have been too early — once Hitler gained power. I would think, though, that, depending on where you lived and what you had experienced, that the time to begin would vary based upon your experience. I would like to think that as soon as you knew where things were going, like so many do today in this country, that you would form your cell and act. As each cell began acting, it would motivate others to do so. Soon the risk would have become so great that the Reich may never have even begun its attempt to conquer the world. But, starting could never have been considered too late. If cells began when the Germans were being pushed out of France, it still would have been effective.

* * *

OPF: Well, John, thanks for your time. I suppose, if people do act when they know something is wrong, like the Founding Fathers did, that they can achieve what they want. Perhaps World War II could have been avoided. It is something to think about.

JOHN: Your welcome, Gary. I think you are right. Many will probably, like those Germans I told you about, regret that they did not act sooner. I only wish I was younger and, well, if I had been a German…