RifleStock 2011 cancelled

RifleStock 2011

Cancelled
What Happened and Why

Gary Hunt
Outpost of Freedom
March 11, 2011

RifleStock 2011, as originally conceived, was to be a picnic, comprised of a broad spectrum of those who consider themselves a part of the patriot community.  It was not a militia event, though considering the proximity to the border, it was determined that having militia personnel provide security, both inside and around the perimeter of the event, would provide a degree of personal security and increased comfort to those attending, considering the remote possibility that certain activities in the area could have an impact on the event.

Early on, during the initial organizing of the event, one of the organizers took it upon himself to arrange the location of the event.  He assured the other organizers that he had verified that no permit was necessary and that there was no reason that the event could not be held in the Coronado National Forest, though he had not determined the exact location, at that time.  That organizer assured the others that he was “going to take care of everything, don’t worry about it”.

After over a month into organizing, that organizer had still not come up with a location, assuring the others that “everything is okay”.  The other organizers had no choice but to leave the “detail” to the one who had taken on the responsibility of the site for RifleStock.

A few weeks ago, the location for the event was published.  It was assumed that all had been taken care of, and other areas of organization were proceeding.

However, on March 10, 2011, just 8 days before the start of the event, an officer from the United States Forest Service, Coronado National Forest, Sierra Vista Ranger District, contacted both organizers, via an email that read, “Please contact [Forest Service] as soon as possible to avoid criminal charges of planned illegal commercial gathering on Federal land and severe fines to all the participants”.

The primary organizer then contacted the Forest Service officer and began discussing the reason for the email.

The organizer, according to the Forest Service, was not cooperative with the officer that contacted him and refused to comply with the request that he make application for a permit.  He described the conversation with the organizer as “combative”.  According to the officer, he had even offered to do what he could to expedite to application so that the permit might be issued before the scheduled event date, but that the RifleStock representative was assertive, and refused to recognize that the Forest Service had a responsibility, regarding the use of those public lands, to protect them so that they can be enjoyed by all.  The organizer, when he found that they were going to do a background check on him, did get “combative”, and told the Forest Service that he was going to cancel the event.

Another representative of the Forest Service explained that their job was “Caring for the Land and Serving People” It appears that, at this point, this was what they were attempting to do.  We should expect nothing less of them.  They are, after all, the custodians of our public lands and have the responsibility to assure that we will enjoy that land as much as those that came before us.

Because of the refusal to comply with the permitting process, and, the organizer’s decision to cancel the event, the organizer created an untenable situation for those who are obliged to do their jobs, on our behalf.  This, coupled with the organizer saying that he was going to cancel the event effectively closed RifleStock 2011 down.  The organizers were then requested to post notice that the event had been cancelled.

At this point, RifleStock was cancelled, and the requested notice was placed on the RifleStock 2011 homepage, where it is to remain for at least “3-5 days”.

Forest Service has told me that they did not “escalate” this matter to DHS.  I was assured the both the original officer and the District Ranger had, and continue to have, every intention of dealing with this matter within their authority — if the need arises.

If there is a connection with DHS, I have been unable to find it.  I will, however, continue to investigate, and report, if I can provide any additional information.

Update: RifleStock 2011 – Canceled   A more thorough explanation

 

 

10 Comments

  1. My experience has always been to avoid Govn. land; there is so much open desert/mountains in Az. and Nv.(who needs the hassle and the B.S.?). And I’d never worry about security in the U.S. of A. This is “our” country, and we have the right to bare arms! I didn’t serve two tours in Vietnam, and my husban didn’t serve in WWII
    & Korea for nothing! I hope that every American would feel as I do: I’ll go any place I want to go in America and feel safe… one way or the other!
    Mrs. Charlie Sugg- Saunders 12 Mar 2011

  2. Wlid Bill says:

    Could we not plan an event on a private owners land? Look at all the problems the Texas Rancher’s are having. I am sure that one of them would welcome a picnic on Private property. In any event please keep me informed when the event will be rescheduled and what help I can offer.

    In The Wind,
    Wild Bill

  3. Regulator says:

    I was rather torqued over this fiasco, too. The organizers came to me to help spread the message, and it was on such short notice; it didn’t give me enough time to get the results that were needed. If another similar rally is planned, I’d be happy to help promote ANYTHING SOLR sponsors, but forget about these small thinkers, long on promise and short on delivery. Credibility takes a long time to establish and with a fiasco like this, it shoots your credibility all to hell.

    I even had a friend who owns over 80 acres near Tombstone VOLUNTEER the use of his property FREE OF CHARGE; but it wasn’t even considered by the organizer. Go figure?

    Never again will I offer my expertise to some fly by night jerk like this. I’ve always been and will continue to be an avid supporter of Sons of Liberty Riders. Anytime I can lend an assist, consider it done. But we need more than a 2 month lead time to get the word out; and someone with an established track record of credibility.

  4. Get Real says:

    Funny, I have it on the highest authority that could be contacted that both the DHS and the US Forest Service were involved. In fact, I was told by one representative that “the event organizer” actually threatened the USFS worker and that’s what got DHS involved in the first place. I have no doubt of the accuracy of this info as it’s been verified three ways. I think that if this “movement” is to ever get anywhere or get any kind of credibility that telling the truth would be a good start. Seems like many in this “movement” have issues with that. Between all these groups that cannot seem to unite under one banner like, i don’t know, the American Flag and stand as one, to all the FELONS and CREEPS that use patriotism as a last refuge…we will never move forward. Please sir, tell the unaltered truth about what really happened here. Or someone will.

    • ghunt Hunt says:

      Get Real,
      It may be funny that you have it on the highest authority. It is interesting that only you know who the highest authority is (and, who you are).

      One person suggested that DHS was involved, though I could find no second source for the same information, except that someone had heard it from the first person , which is not really a second source, is it. Of course, if it came from one person and he told one hundred people, you could say that you have 101 sources, but, really, you only have one. That is the difference between credibility and rumor.

      As far as Forest Service being involved, I do believe that I said that, and, why they were involved. My sources for that information were both the Forest Service representative that I spoke with (Public Information Officer) and Joe Racer, who said that he (Joe Racer) cancelled the event.

      So, if you have some “unaltered truth”, please provide that truth to us. Of course, you will have to come out of your closet and also provide independent sources to substantiate your “unaltered truth”. I trust that is not a problem for you.
      The forum is yours.

  5. Get Real says:

    Why does it matter who I am? Let’s just talk about what really happened here. You can try to discredit me all you want, but you and I both know you bagged out to avoid being affiliated with the other two “organizers” of this event when it got too deep. Why did you bail? Explain that in detail in one of your blogs. Talk about what was really the motive for that event. Talk about who was supposed to get paid for it. Was there something about this thing that you became so uncomfortable with so fast that had to get seperated from it? You know what? The whole word/concept of “patriot” simply makes me sick anymore…from the slime that fling it around as if they’ve earned the right to. The REAL patriots of this nation, our forefathers, were men of honor. They stood behind what they said and did, and were prepared to take the consequences of their actions. I hear about all this “resistance” and all these “warriors” and “patriots”. Then I surf the net for a while and look into some of them. Then I find they all have some form of criminal record, are on welfare of some sort, are simply looking to incite violence to go out via “suicide by cop” and so on. I so seldom hear of any of them talking about their families, their towns, rebuilding this nation…nothing. It’s always about guns, violence and hate. It’s all about “killing the NWO” as even ONE of these IDIOTS has ANY clue who or what the NWO even is. The NWO is not a group of people, it’s an ERA. And there is literally NOTHING any of these two-faced, lying rat bastards can or is going to do about it. You cannot wage a war against something you cannot see, much less identify. I look around at all these “freedom fighters” and you know what I see? Losers. People begging others for money for poorly adapted concepts. The July4Patriot scumbag is now selling TSHIRTS with his ridiculous mug on them bearing the phrase “Free J4P”. When will he come clean and admit that he’s an informant who is being very cleverly used to get all these “warriors” to expose themselves? Nobody walks on federal weapons charges when it was that black and white. Lezcano and other youtube “leaders” that are easily documented to be welfare frauds that sit on their backsides whining about and threatening the very government that pays their way through life. Most of these “leaders” are FELONS and therefore couldn’t legally own a firearm. Guess the law means very little to these people. I even hear that raffles for firearms with the serial numbers ground off were to take place at some of these get togethers. Whether you respect the law or not, the Constitution is NOT a free ticket to anarchy. There are laws and even the Bible says that you are supposed to respect and obey the laws of the land. I wonder how many of these Constitution honoring “warriors” understand terms like “treason” or “sedition” or just simply how about this one: SOCIOPATH. But then, it’s always the govt making up all these false charges, planting evidence and so on. So what these mental giants wish to convey to us idiots out here is simply that we are all too stupid to understand things without their help, that somehow we should take money out of our family’s mouths to pay their legal defense bills when their actions get the heat put on them. Never mind. I get the feeling you’ve already stopped listening. I will check back to see if a reasonble and intelligent response is left. But I’m guessing there’s about as much chance of that happening as these “patriots” suddenly realizing that there’s a time and place for everything. And maybe that the Constitution is not necessarily a free ticket to show their asses. Where WERE all of these American heroes when Bush was passing Patriot Act I and II? Black man elected president, all the psychos come out with their guns and (lack of) uniforms. With any luck, maybe they’ll be right and 2012 will be the end of the world, so that we can all stop suffering their endless moronical rants and stupidity. You want to be patriotic? Serve your community. Volunteer somewhere. Put your gun away until the time is called for. Until you can identify your enemy. Sitting around tearing one another apart in pointless banter does nothing. And that’s exactly how THEY want it. Laughable. These retarded morons are simply laughable.

    • ghunt Hunt says:

      Get Real,
      Let me start by saying those who respond, without reading, lack a desire to know what is really happening, they simply want to be heard. With that in mind, let me provide a quote from the other page that you keep replying to:
      “These last two situations lead to my resignation from organizing RifleStock 2011, on February 2, 2011. In leaving, I stated that it was for consideration of my time and that it had taken a toll on my writing. I had little choice in lying to the community, as, if I were to tell; the truth, it would probably undermine any participation by other than Joe’s close friends, in RifleStock 2011. Perhaps my actions might seem unfair to some, and, I cannot deny that this may be true. The dilemma, for me, was that I have always encouraged working together and discouraged anything that would be destructive to the community, or a negative on any member of the community (name-calling).”

      So, does that answer the question — now that it has been posted twice?

      Now, the real motive, for two of us, was to have an event that would bring patriots together and bring attention to the border problem. I cannot speak for the third organizer, though it appears that his motivation was not the same as ours. He did express that his motives were the same, though I have trouble believing it, as, apparently, do you. However, I can only say what I know, not what I think. That is a difference between you and me.

      You know, it would be easier to read what you say if you would break it up into paragraphs. It kinda keeps thing from running together.

      However, I will respond to your claim of what the Bible says. It does not not say to obey all laws. And, the Constitution prohibits the government from making certain laws, though the government has made them.

      Perhaps you could read some of my other articles on this blog and you will see that I am not of that stripe that you speak of.

      I would suggest, in particular, that you read The Plan for the Restoration of Constitutional Government – Abbreviated Version. If you do decide to comment on that particular article, I would suggest that you read and understand it before you comment. Many have commented without reading it, which shows by the assumptions that they made about the article. When they went back to really read it, not looking to criticize it, they found that it was not what they thought, and, it was the first plan that they have read that makes sense.

      Now, if you are done wandering, what, about my article, is intended to tear us apart? It would seem that your suggestive story is more likely to tear people apart than the truth, at least that portion that can be verified, is less likely to, and, is also a healthy approach to the problem that you seem intent on creating.

  6. Get Real says:

    Now we are going to go to grammar and punctuation. Very well, if you insist.

    First, I’ve not said a single word about you personally, sir. Only those that would come here seeking truth, or to repel it, depending.

    I (and a LARGE number of others) believe you to be wrong, sir. About a few critical points. For starters, please don’t try to talk Bible to me. Here’s the proof you seek about what the Bible does and doesn’t say.

    For your consideration and reading:

    From the King James Bible:

    Romans 13:1-7 states, “Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.”

    This passage makes it abundantly clear that we are to obey the government God places over us. God created government to establish order, punish evil, and promote justice (Genesis 9:6; 1 Corinthians 14:33; Romans 12:8). We are to obey the government in everything—paying taxes, obeying rules and laws, and showing respect. If we do not, we are ultimately showing disrespect towards God, for He is the One who placed that government over us. When the apostle Paul wrote to the Romans, he was under the government of Rome during the reign of Nero, perhaps the most evil of all the Roman emperors. Paul still recognized the Roman government’s rule over him. How can we do any less?

    The next question is “Is there a time when we should intentionally disobey the laws of the land?” The answer to that question may be found in Acts 5:27-29, “Having brought the apostles, they made them appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest. ‘We gave you strict orders not to teach in this Name,’ he said. ‘Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man’s blood.’ Peter and the other apostles replied: ‘We must obey God rather than men!’“ From this, it is clear that as long as the law of the land does not contradict the law of God, we are bound to obey the law of the land. As soon as the law of the land contradicts God’s command, we are to disobey the law of the land and obey God’s law. However, even in that instance, we are to accept the government’s authority over us. This is demonstrated by the fact that Peter and John did not protest being flogged, but instead rejoiced that they suffered for obeying God (Acts 5:40-42).

    Please don’t be so crass as to suggest that I speak or write in foolish ignorance. I have not done so to you. I came here in a search for truth in a time where it eludes us because FOOLS are far too many, and their lies much too easy to hear. I don’t play reverse psychology. Nor will I entertain you trying to goad me into a conflict, verbal or otherwise. I am simply making it known that this event had more things in mind than a simple gathering of good people. The definition of “good people” is most assuredly up for interpretation these days. I am sure you agree and understand.

    Where the unsavory aspects of this event were concerned, how much did you know about it? I don’t knowwhat you personally knew and didn’t as I wasn’t privvy to your conversations. I DO know others that were involved, and I HAVE spoken to people that were DIRECTLY involved in the outcome, i.e. some of the agency representatives that were very nice and easy to talk to. Joe, (aka G.W.) most assuredly DID threaten a USFS agent with a gunfight involving 30-45 “armed patriots”, and thereby got the DHS involved immediately thereafter. The USFS person who called to make things work got threatened by a lunatic fraud psycho…which is apparently on par with so many others in this “movement”. That is why the DHS was brought in so quickly. That move would be on par with current policy regarding domestic terrorism.

    Whether you knew or not is truly immaterial and likely would not have exhonerated you in court. In for a penny, on for a pound they say. Know who you are dealing with entirely, or perhaps don’t play. I HOPE you are of higher moral caliber than those you previously affiliated with. After some very simple reading, it appears that NONE of those involved in this (save only perhaps you) have anything remotely near integrity. The other organizer has a habit of releasing false information, I hear? Among other issues that destroy the very notion of potential for credibility? As I read/hear it, he’s regarded as basically a looney tune.

    I am here (and other places) simply watching the lies get spun by a movement that so desperately wants respect and credibility, but effectively foot shoots themselves at almost every turn. And then when someone comes asking questions whose answers are based in truth, they are met with venom and sarcasm. Not surprising, it’s actually pretty common.

    You must know that there is no chance of ever returning to the romantic notion of what once was. It’s never happened in history, and won’t happen now. Look carefully at what’s going on in the world around you. “Nation will rise against nation, Kings will rise against kings.”…savvy? If you would care to have anymore exchange regarding scripture, I welcome it. Perhaps you and I can show one another truth.

    For some reason, I think that maybe you really didn’t know who or what you were dealing with. I do feel sorry for you in that respect. I am asking only that when you tell innocent readers things that that may well become emotionally charged over, that you make 100% sure you are correct and complete in the information you distribute. Nothing more. Insulting and impugning me only takes away from whatever righteousness you may have been trying to retain. “The accuser is typically the abuser” and all…

    Your turn.

    • ghunt Hunt says:

      Get Real,
      Okay, let’s start with laws/government. If I remember correctly, the Geneva Bible says magistrates, not government.

      That aside, however, what is the government? Is it the people that run the government? The people that are hired by the government? The Constitution? What happens when those are in conflict? Are we to take the word of those who were put into power by money, instead of God?

      I was not considering you to be crass; rather, I want to make my position quite clear. If we are to obey all laws, then there is conflict that is beyond resolution. It was your brevity that I was addressing. You have, however, cleared that up.

      If you come in search of truth, I can understand that you would like to know more of what happened during the entire RifleStock episode. There are things that I could say; after all, I spent many hours on the phone with the other organizers (many more with Mike than with Joe). However, they are irrelevant. What I can report on, however, is what I have confirmed, not what I believe happened. If I were to do otherwise, you would be getting my truth, not the truth. If you accepted what I said to be true, then you would not really know if what I said was true (provable), or not. You would simply accept it in blind faith.

      I began reporting during the Waco siege. I have endeavored to be as thorough as I can, and to try and confirmation from both sides, unless something were irrefutable. My reputation for reporting was hard earned, and well earned, since I sought the truth, as stated above, where it was irrefutable, or confirmed by two independent and reliable sources.

      Through the years, there have been efforts to attack me. They are easily found. In consequence, I left RifleStock because I did not want what I saw might be happening to affect my reputation. I believe I made clear that I chose not to let my suspicions denigrate RifleStock, so, I lied as to why I was leaving. It is a precarious situation, and I apologized. I also pointed out that under the circumstances, I would do the same, again.

      So, if there is another effort to resurrect RifleStock, I will pass on what is requested of me, but, since I have experienced this recent situation, I will not participate as an organizer.

      What you suggest about ‘Joe’ threatening, ‘Joe’ told e that he threatened the officer, as you have suggested. The extent that they would support this contention was that “Joe” was “combative”. Your “sources”, especially, if you spoke to Kim, would probably support what “Joe” told me, however, I did not get that confirmation, therefore, I did not report it. To me, that is all that I am willing to report, especially considering that “Joe” tends towards being a braggart. I would not be party to his bolstering his ego, if it were not true.

      If DHS was involved, it was after RifleStock was cancelled. So, is DHS involvement really a part of the story? To me, the answer is no. It only clouds why RifleStock was cancelled, which was not the purpose of my article.

      I find this quote interesting, “Nation will rise against nation, Kings will rise against kings.” I have read that a number of times, while studying World War I.

      Now, as to your final point, I have explained why I have reported what I have reported. You suggest that I was not telling the truth (impugning me), while I stated that I was telling what I knew to be true. At least, now, you are finally coming forth with details, regardless of sources. That is far better than maligning me for going against me principles.

  7. Get Real says:

    Sir, it is not YOU that I take issue with…and I appreciate your courage in speaking truth. Thank you for your time.

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