RifleStock 2011 Canceled — A more thorough explanation
RifleStock 2011 Canceled
A more thorough explanation
Gary Hunt
Outpost of Freedom
March 22, 2011
Many are upset over the cancellation of RifleStock 2011. This is quite understandable, especially for those who had made travel commitments, scheduled vacation time, or otherwise arranged their schedules to be able to attend this event. Few, however, are more upset about the cancellation, and, yes, failure, of the event known as RifleStock 2011 as two of the original three organizers of the event.
Although a brief explanation of what caused the cancelation was posted (RifleStock 2011 Cancelation). It apparently was not sufficient to appease, or at least bring an understanding of that failure, to many of those who were to attend, or to people otherwise hopefully watching to see if such an event could be conducted by the patriot community.
Many have suggested that the cancellation was an act of the government. Well, it is easy to understand that when you have an assertive government, as we do, that it is not beyond reason to think that they would engineer a means to keep the event from happening. And, as much as we like to blame the government for many of the ills that befall us, many rightfully so, it is also necessary to place “blame where it properly belongs. In this instance, it was not the government.
So, let me explain and put to rest such theories.
RifleStock was conceived during an Internet radio show hosted by Joe Racer (an alias). It was simply an idea tossed out during the program. It seemed to be a good idea, so I contacted Joe after the show, and we agreed to get Mike Freebyrd in a Skype call to discuss the possibility of putting together such an event. This was in early January 2011.
We had determined that with three of us, a majority was easily determined, and, that we would abide by the majority. Mike, having his webpage, was to set up the RifleStock 2011 webpage. I was to write promotional introduction to RifleStock 2011, and, Joe, who told us of his experience in organizing many dirt-bike events, was to find a location on which to have the event. Tentative schedules were established and an agreement to conference on Skype, when anything needed to be discussed. By January 15, we had set the date for RifleStock 2011, the first promotional went out, the mail list, intended to keep those interested abreast of what was happening, progress in organizing, etc., was opened and operational, and the webpage was up and operational.
During the organizing discussions, the location was of critical importance for a number f reasons: Security, was it in dangerous location where there was possibility of confrontation; was it located where observation of illegal activity and the destructiveness of passage of illegals could be see; and, was it accessible to regular cars and trucks, and to motorcycles.
Joe kept changing possible locations, and would not listen to anything from Mike or myself. He would not disclose locations so that we could begin to look at potential sites on Google Earth and maps. By February 2, he would still not disclose a location, though he claimed to have one, and would not allow the other two organizers to know where that location was. He promised that he would let us know in a few days.
Compounding this problem was my concern (and Mike’s) that people would not buy tickets to an event if they didn’t know where the event was going to be; if they didn’t know if their mode of transportation was capable of getting there; and, absent a location, whether the event would even be held.
There were other matters to be dealt with, such as entertainment, logistics, sanitary facilities, power, flagpoles, PA equipment, stage or platform for speakers and entertainers, etc., each of which, Joe Racer said that he would take care of. If either of the others tried to offer suggestions, offer to take care of, or even try to get a status of progress on how anything was coming along, we were stonewalled. We were left to do the very few things that Joe had not taken upon himself, often overruling the majority, to “take care of”.
These last two situations lead to my resignation from organizing RifleStock 2011, on February 2, 2011. In leaving, I stated that it was for consideration of my time and that it had taken a toll on my writing. I had little choice in lying to the community, as, if I were to tell; the truth, it would probably undermine any participation by other than Joe’s close friends, in RifleStock 2011. Perhaps my actions might seem unfair to some, and, I cannot deny that this may be true. The dilemma, for me, was that I have always encouraged working together and discouraged anything that would be destructive to the community, or a negative on any member of the community (name-calling).
So, I can, and will, apologize for not being up front back then. I will also admit that under similar circumstances, I would do the same thing, again.
After I removed myself, I remained in contact with Mike Freebyrd. He realized that things were falling apart, and that there was no indication that anything was being done to address the matters mentioned above that needed resolution. He has had a long-standing relationship with Joe, and would just hope that Joe would hold up his end, as he said he would, and make things work. Mike had no hand, at all, in anything other than keeping the page as current as possible, designing and ordering the patches, collection of money for tickets, and distribution of same, and trying, where he could, to make things happen, such as the raffle.
Finally, a location was determined and Joe, as he had assured us early on, insisted that he had looked into the requirements of the Coronado National Forest, and stated that no permits were required. Very poor maps were posted to the webpage (provide by Joe), with no real attention brought to them, nor was there an overall map which would have helped people to get there. This information was not posted to the mail list, so, those who found out where the site was did so if they listened to Joe’s radio program, or asked and were directed to the particular page that had the maps.
Then, on March 10, 2011, just 8 days before the start of the event, and before most of those who were either attending or considering attending the event knew what the location was, the government did. How they found out is, at this time, speculative, though since it was happening on land which they bear the responsibility for, an officer from the United States Forest Service, Coronado National Forest, Sierra Vista Ranger District, contacted both Mike and Joe, via an email that read, “Please contact [Forest Service] as soon as possible to avoid criminal charges of planned illegal commercial gathering on Federal land . . .”.
Joe Racer contacted the Forest Service officer, as requested. When the Forest Service asked Joe what his name was, he responded, “Joe Racer”. The Forest service then said that they could find no record of any Joe Racer. Joe refused to give his real name, possibly Gerard or Gerald Wytman, and then Joe insisted that the government had no right to do a background check on him; that no permit was needed to have the event on public land; and, that he (Joe Racer) was canceling the event. Both Joe and the Ranger have described Joe’s attitude as “combative” and uncooperative, even though the Ranger had offered to assist in expediting the application for the permit.
Based upon Joe’s statement that he was canceling the event, the Ranger followed up and contacted Mike to assure that the RifleStock 2011 page showed that the event had been cancelled. He asked Mike if he had the authority to cancel the event. Mike answered that he could, and, that he would. This was probably a follow up to assure that Joe, who had created the problem, did not renege on his assertion that he would cancel the event.
Though there were many rumors regarding the government attempting to prohibit RifleStock 2011, there is nothing to substantiate that claim. Joe Racer, of his own volition, canceled the event.
Joe Racer, is the sole cause of the failure to properly organize the event, and directly and singularly responsible for the cancellation of the event.
This is not an accusation or attempt at defamation; it is simply a statement of the facts surrounding the event.
“Joe Racer” is actually Gerard Wytman from California. He’s a FRAUD, a SCAM, and a PUNK. He’s got several leins against him, has been foreclosed on, and has been the center of SEVERAL internet related money grabbing schemes that ultimately has landed him in court. SO many people know who this jerk is now that it’s not funny. And therein lies the biggest problem with this “militia” and “patriot” movement. TOO MANY FAKES AND LIARS. Too many Charles Dyers, Tony Lezcanos, Nancy Genoveses, Sean Parrishs, Gerard Wytmans, Franke Scheins, Schaeffer Coxes, Hutarees and so on. – and so on. Until a level of honesty and integrity are the baseline for this movement, we will NEVER be taken seriously. Surplus cammies, a hate for the govt (where was this movement BEFORE Obama was elected, you know, when Bush was creating his war and murdered all those people?) chinese airsoft nylon kit and a rifle he had to save up for does NOT make someone militia. It makes them precisely the lunatic jerks that they are perceived to be…hell bent on overthrowing a govt simply because a black man was made, I didn’t say elected, President. You saw this “militia” upheaval during Clinton’s admin because he was an anti-gun freak. Bush…not so much, when in TRUTH, Bush did more to harm your precious constitution than any president in history. Personally, I think that prior to claiming to be “militia”, one must have to take a test on American History, The Constitution, The Law of the Land and basic Citizenship. Waving around the 2nd Amendment and acting like an ass doesn’t mean “they’re out to get you”. It means you acted like an ass, and now you are being treated like one. Let’s get the facts straight here, and then go on trying to piss off the world so you can lie some more to people that are basically good…but lacking the truth. Weed out all the crooks, liars, BS’ers, fake veterans, conspiracy nuts and all the other asses…and you might have a few good men left. At least that it seems out here to the real world.
Get Real,
One of the problems with the patriot community is that many will sling slanderous remarks about pothers, without being able to back up what they claim to be truth. For example, in your response to another post about RifleStock 2011 being cancelled (http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/blog/?p=438#comments), you claimed that you had three sources to back up your claims, yet you provided no sources, nor who you are.
So, where does the credibility lie? In your lap? Or, elsewhere?
You have named a number of people who you claim are “fakes and liars”, yet you offer nothing to prove that you are not amongst them.
I will say that I can’t disagree with you on most of what you said, though the remainder is lost for lack of proof.
Keep watching the blog. There will soon be a means to lay these claims out and get an honest evaluation of the credibility of each of those named, if someone has the willingness to step forward and challenge them on their credibility.
Right now, we are looking at about April 10th to have that forum up. A blog will be posted with the pertinent information. In the meantime, you might want to read Committee of Safety – Common Law Court.
So, as far s the unaltered truth, in this current matter, I have told what I know and can substantiate. There may be other truths, however, if I only have one source, I do not know if that claim is truth, or fabrication. I will not judge it either way, I will simply omit it as improvable, with the resources that I have.
Here’s the scoop, sir. It really doesn’t matter who I am so long as what I am saying is true. I am in no way obligated to release the sources of my information as that would compromise the integrity of the agreements made to obtain the TRUTH that has been spoken here. I have spoken to who I’ve spoken to and that’s all that matters. Those involved were LEOs from the involved districts and agencies, others were confidential contacts I have in law enforcement and others that are simply “in the know”. I am not here to cite details about how this went down. You were there for a good part of it, you know how it happened and who the players were. Let’s not mince words and act cheaply here. I am one of a growing number of people who are trying very, very hard to stop the word “patriot” from being synonimized with “domestic terrorist”. It was once said that “patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel”…lately and from what I have seen this is VERY true. I am simply watching to make sure what is said and relayed to all of these “patriots” stays based in truth. And BTW, in order for something to be ruled as “slander”…it must be FALSE and said to harm the reputation of a certain individual. Nothing of the sort has happened here. I had NO problem getting the players to talk about how it all went down…and I am not about to sit here and out credible sources so that you can initiate some form of counter-attack for the sake of saving face. It’s bad enough that a group of people who had NO right to attempt something as monumentally STUPID as this almost pulled it off. There are a great many people who know what was REALLY going to happen there…now aren’t there. Don’t try to use such pointless tactics as trying to insult me into giving you information you don’t need and are not entitled to. Tell the WHOLE truth, and I will simply go away!
Get real,
Credibility is the most serious problem that the patriot community has. Your “story” lacks credibility, and is the type of story that leads to the problem that you suggest.
You want us to believe that the government shut down RifleStock. I have spoken to three people with the government, and they allege that they did not — that Joe Racer (Gerard or Gerald Wytman, Jr.) cancelled RifleStock. So, that is one side.
Joe Racer told me that he got pissed off at the officer and told the officer that he was cancelling RifleStock.
So, what is your story? You are not very clear. I have no doubt that the government is “interested” anytime there is any event involving patriots, and, yes, even Tea Parties.
Now, one of the Forest Service officers followed up, contacted another organizer, and asked him if he had the authority to “cancel” RifleStock. He said that he did and agreed to put a notice on the webpage saying that RifleStock has been cancelled. However, if you have read what I have written, you would know that this is what was said.
You, however, allude to something that you got from there people, yet you can provide no specifics as to what happened, who said what, who cancelled RifleStock, how they cancelled it, or anything else, except, of course, your very ambiguous claims.
Ambiguous claims have brought discredit on the patriot community for nearly twenty years. The vague story is told, someone passes it along, questions are asked, answers are made up, and all of a sudden, the story has changed, and has a life of its own.
Your “story” will have all of those characteristics, if it is not refuted here.
So, I call you on it. If you were told by three people what happened, even without giving their names, or yours (which lends to the incredibility of the story), at least give details of the events, as you have been told them (or, made them up).
It does no such thing. You are showing your frustration by trying to get me to betray professional confidence. Would an attorney simply tell the world where his information comes from? Would an investigator publicly out his CI’s? Nope. I will humor you in only this, so that you know *I* know what happened: the USFS officer in charge’s last name is very, very ASIAN in nature, isn’t it? Korean, if I am not mistaken.
Now,
You seem to think I need your approval in this, or that I somehow came here and commented for your benefit.
You seem to think that somehow your opinion in this makes a difference to me in any way.
And you seem to think that by increasing the level of your display of irritation, that somehow I will immaturely simply blurt out the names of all those I’ve spoken with and make their talking to me a mistake when I told them I would NOT quote them nor release their names. Some people simply just do NOT want to be in the middle…but DO want people to know the truth.
Wrong, wrong and….well, wrong.
I am just here to let you know that people are tired of the BS and they ARE paying attention to things that otherwise would simply. They are tired of all these “patriots” stirring up lies and violence to simply add substance or validity to their vacant and pointless lives. Maybe if they went out and got JOBS instead of sitting on welfare and complaining about the government things would be different. But no, that won’t do. It’s far better to craft youtube videos and piss off people who refuse to seek the answers for themselves. And then fleece them for money they don’t have and can’t really afford to give. Likely welfare or drug money from what my research shows.
Here’s a thought. For anyone reading this and thinking that maybe I might not just be here for fun: CALL the Patrol Captain’s Office for the Coronado National Forest Service. Ask them for the official truth of what happened. Tell them that you are a concerned citizen that heard a terrible story and just want to know the truth. See what’s said…
Get Real,
Interesting that you compare yourself to a lawyer when we are seeking the truth. Lawyers do not seek truth, they try to make truth. Let me add that lawyers go by their real names, and, they go by the real names of their witnesses.
You suggest:
“You seem to think I need your approval in this, or that I somehow came here and commented for your benefit.”
What I responded to, your first posting in this thread, is:
“Let’s get the facts straight here, and then go on trying to piss off the world so you can lie some more to people that are basically good.”
That seems to be rather accusatory to me, though I may be wrong.
I was not trying to get you to name names, except your own. Absent an identity, it is difficult, especially absent any detail, to accept anything someone says, when presented in such an ambiguous manner. When you gave details on the other thread, at least there was something to discuss, rather than just suggesting what might be.
So, now, you return to suggesting that I lied. To wit:
“I am just here to let you know that people are tired of the BS . . . They are tired of all these “patriots” stirring up lies and violence to simply add substance or validity to their vacant and pointless lives.”
I will point out that when I talked to Forest Service, the “episode” was just a day old. The person I talked with had a broken conversation with the officer involved in the conversation with “Joe”. Give the limitations on what information was available at the time, I got the story out — to dispel that rampant rumors that the government shut down RifleStock. It is wrong to blame those who are not at fault — just because it is what some want to believe.
So, I will suggest that since you want to continue presenting the story, with information that is available now, open your own blog, webpage, fax network, whatever turns you on. There is no need to come here a denigrate a story that is dated, and contains no lies (as you have suggested).
Again, YOU are not the problem here. There is a MUCH larger problem that we are taking issue with that you unfortunately were simply stuck in the middle of. Please be careful as these days progress. There are very wicked and dangerous people that are working VERY hard to infiltrate the groups of GOOD people to tear them apart…